Cumbria and Lancashire named two of the worst areas in England for road accident increases

Cumbria and Lancashire named two of the worst areas in England for road accident increases

Cumbria and Lancashire named two of the worst areas in England for road accident increases

First published in News
Last updated

CUMBRIA and Lancashire have been named two of the worst counties in the country for the number of people killed or seriously injured on their roads.

Lancashire sat at the bottom of the table while Cumbria was found to have performed third worst, when figures for 2013 were compared with figures from the previous year.

Last year Lancashire had 72 more serious incidents, while Cumbria’s roads saw an increase of 43 incidents.

Simon Best, chief executive of the Institute of Advanced Motorists, which pulled together the figures, said: “Figures will always vary from year to year but the wide variations do suggest that some councils are much better at putting measures in place that are having a marked difference in reducing the numbers of deaths and serious injuries on their roads.

“As the economy improves spending on road safety must be seen as a priority across the whole of the UK with clear strategies in place to reduce the number of people killed or seriously injured on our roads.

“Even one death or injured person on our roads is one too many.”

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10:34am Wed 30 Jul 14

Whinfell says...

This does not surprise me.
the 'standard' of driving around here is appalling.
Aggressive,careless and dare I say it mainly a male prerogative{I speak as a male].
The road from Helsington towards Barrow is a typical example which is frequented by these boneheads,
This does not surprise me. the 'standard' of driving around here is appalling. Aggressive,careless and dare I say it mainly a male prerogative{I speak as a male]. The road from Helsington towards Barrow is a typical example which is frequented by these boneheads, Whinfell
  • Score: -9

11:10am Wed 30 Jul 14

Kendal lad says...

I have commented many times on the issue of driving standards within our county.

The driving seen on the A65 through to Skipton is at times appalling. The number of accidents that have occurred on that stretch recently are testament to that.

I regularly have to avoid drivers who fail to know how wide their cars are, who don't appear to know what the correct speed limit for the road and the conditions are, can't anticipate what other road users are likely to do.

This is not a gender issue. I am male driver who has driven for many years, and lived in the county all my life.

The issues I have witnessed tend to be perpetrated by older drivers who really don't know how to drive on our narrow roads. They get worried when lorries come near them, speed up and slow down going into corners, panic when going past overgrown hedges, don't know that the white line in the middle of the road mean etc.

Before I receive the ire of all you older residents who will no doubt think I being ageist, I am not. I too am an older driver.

However, it has becoming increasingly clear to me that mandatory testing for the over 70's should be legislated for. This is not an attempt to stop older drivers using their cars in our extensively rural community, I too need a car (due to the appalling bus service:- that's another gripe though).

We have more older people retiring to our county (the baby boomers). Can there possibly be a correlation to the increase in car accidents? Older drivers who passed their test many, many years ago when traffic was different really need brush up on their skills. The number of older drivers I see in very large powerful cars now is testament for the need to have a greater level of testing.

Discuss.
I have commented many times on the issue of driving standards within our county. The driving seen on the A65 through to Skipton is at times appalling. The number of accidents that have occurred on that stretch recently are testament to that. I regularly have to avoid drivers who fail to know how wide their cars are, who don't appear to know what the correct speed limit for the road and the conditions are, can't anticipate what other road users are likely to do. This is not a gender issue. I am male driver who has driven for many years, and lived in the county all my life. The issues I have witnessed tend to be perpetrated by older drivers who really don't know how to drive on our narrow roads. They get worried when lorries come near them, speed up and slow down going into corners, panic when going past overgrown hedges, don't know that the white line in the middle of the road mean etc. Before I receive the ire of all you older residents who will no doubt think I being ageist, I am not. I too am an older driver. However, it has becoming increasingly clear to me that mandatory testing for the over 70's should be legislated for. This is not an attempt to stop older drivers using their cars in our extensively rural community, I too need a car (due to the appalling bus service:- that's another gripe though). We have more older people retiring to our county (the baby boomers). Can there possibly be a correlation to the increase in car accidents? Older drivers who passed their test many, many years ago when traffic was different really need brush up on their skills. The number of older drivers I see in very large powerful cars now is testament for the need to have a greater level of testing. Discuss. Kendal lad
  • Score: 3

12:23pm Wed 30 Jul 14

loughrigg says...

Agree completely Kendal Lad. I'd welcome a short (skills based not revenue generating) test every 5 years from the age of 60.
I can't help but think that a few more cops in unmarked cars would not only catch these drivers but the thought that there are unmarked cars about would deter some too. Alas, I don't think we can afford cops with the budget cuts!!
Agree completely Kendal Lad. I'd welcome a short (skills based not revenue generating) test every 5 years from the age of 60. I can't help but think that a few more cops in unmarked cars would not only catch these drivers but the thought that there are unmarked cars about would deter some too. Alas, I don't think we can afford cops with the budget cuts!! loughrigg
  • Score: -2

2:00pm Wed 30 Jul 14

greenbell says...

loughrigg wrote:
Agree completely Kendal Lad. I'd welcome a short (skills based not revenue generating) test every 5 years from the age of 60.
I can't help but think that a few more cops in unmarked cars would not only catch these drivers but the thought that there are unmarked cars about would deter some too. Alas, I don't think we can afford cops with the budget cuts!!
What price do you put on maiming and death. We have a hopeless police force that just don't want to know where bad driving is concerned.
[quote][p][bold]loughrigg[/bold] wrote: Agree completely Kendal Lad. I'd welcome a short (skills based not revenue generating) test every 5 years from the age of 60. I can't help but think that a few more cops in unmarked cars would not only catch these drivers but the thought that there are unmarked cars about would deter some too. Alas, I don't think we can afford cops with the budget cuts!![/p][/quote]What price do you put on maiming and death. We have a hopeless police force that just don't want to know where bad driving is concerned. greenbell
  • Score: -14

2:37pm Wed 30 Jul 14

Whinfell says...

The police are too busy stuck in their officer glued to their computers!
Apparently for every officer you see on the street or in a patrol car there are nine doing paperwork the police station.
I am told they prefer it that way:it's a cushy number.
Nice work if you can get it.
The police are too busy stuck in their officer glued to their computers! Apparently for every officer you see on the street or in a patrol car there are nine doing paperwork the police station. I am told they prefer it that way:it's a cushy number. Nice work if you can get it. Whinfell
  • Score: -18

2:48pm Wed 30 Jul 14

Hoad Hill says...

Kendal lad wrote:
I have commented many times on the issue of driving standards within our county.

The driving seen on the A65 through to Skipton is at times appalling. The number of accidents that have occurred on that stretch recently are testament to that.

I regularly have to avoid drivers who fail to know how wide their cars are, who don't appear to know what the correct speed limit for the road and the conditions are, can't anticipate what other road users are likely to do.

This is not a gender issue. I am male driver who has driven for many years, and lived in the county all my life.

The issues I have witnessed tend to be perpetrated by older drivers who really don't know how to drive on our narrow roads. They get worried when lorries come near them, speed up and slow down going into corners, panic when going past overgrown hedges, don't know that the white line in the middle of the road mean etc.

Before I receive the ire of all you older residents who will no doubt think I being ageist, I am not. I too am an older driver.

However, it has becoming increasingly clear to me that mandatory testing for the over 70's should be legislated for. This is not an attempt to stop older drivers using their cars in our extensively rural community, I too need a car (due to the appalling bus service:- that's another gripe though).

We have more older people retiring to our county (the baby boomers). Can there possibly be a correlation to the increase in car accidents? Older drivers who passed their test many, many years ago when traffic was different really need brush up on their skills. The number of older drivers I see in very large powerful cars now is testament for the need to have a greater level of testing.

Discuss.
I see a great many drivers in this area using mobile phones but they never seem to be the older drivers you are focussing on.
I wouldn't object to some form of assessment for older drivers but in my view the real problem is the lack of enforcement of existing law by the police. The only time using a mobile phone becomes an issue is following an accident...that's too late.
Finally, your views aren't supported by the insurance industry which has expertise in assessing risk and clearly considers young drivers to be more of a problem.
[quote][p][bold]Kendal lad[/bold] wrote: I have commented many times on the issue of driving standards within our county. The driving seen on the A65 through to Skipton is at times appalling. The number of accidents that have occurred on that stretch recently are testament to that. I regularly have to avoid drivers who fail to know how wide their cars are, who don't appear to know what the correct speed limit for the road and the conditions are, can't anticipate what other road users are likely to do. This is not a gender issue. I am male driver who has driven for many years, and lived in the county all my life. The issues I have witnessed tend to be perpetrated by older drivers who really don't know how to drive on our narrow roads. They get worried when lorries come near them, speed up and slow down going into corners, panic when going past overgrown hedges, don't know that the white line in the middle of the road mean etc. Before I receive the ire of all you older residents who will no doubt think I being ageist, I am not. I too am an older driver. However, it has becoming increasingly clear to me that mandatory testing for the over 70's should be legislated for. This is not an attempt to stop older drivers using their cars in our extensively rural community, I too need a car (due to the appalling bus service:- that's another gripe though). We have more older people retiring to our county (the baby boomers). Can there possibly be a correlation to the increase in car accidents? Older drivers who passed their test many, many years ago when traffic was different really need brush up on their skills. The number of older drivers I see in very large powerful cars now is testament for the need to have a greater level of testing. Discuss.[/p][/quote]I see a great many drivers in this area using mobile phones but they never seem to be the older drivers you are focussing on. I wouldn't object to some form of assessment for older drivers but in my view the real problem is the lack of enforcement of existing law by the police. The only time using a mobile phone becomes an issue is following an accident...that's too late. Finally, your views aren't supported by the insurance industry which has expertise in assessing risk and clearly considers young drivers to be more of a problem. Hoad Hill
  • Score: 7

3:52pm Wed 30 Jul 14

Kendal lad says...

Hoad Hill wrote:
Kendal lad wrote:
I have commented many times on the issue of driving standards within our county.

The driving seen on the A65 through to Skipton is at times appalling. The number of accidents that have occurred on that stretch recently are testament to that.

I regularly have to avoid drivers who fail to know how wide their cars are, who don't appear to know what the correct speed limit for the road and the conditions are, can't anticipate what other road users are likely to do.

This is not a gender issue. I am male driver who has driven for many years, and lived in the county all my life.

The issues I have witnessed tend to be perpetrated by older drivers who really don't know how to drive on our narrow roads. They get worried when lorries come near them, speed up and slow down going into corners, panic when going past overgrown hedges, don't know that the white line in the middle of the road mean etc.

Before I receive the ire of all you older residents who will no doubt think I being ageist, I am not. I too am an older driver.

However, it has becoming increasingly clear to me that mandatory testing for the over 70's should be legislated for. This is not an attempt to stop older drivers using their cars in our extensively rural community, I too need a car (due to the appalling bus service:- that's another gripe though).

We have more older people retiring to our county (the baby boomers). Can there possibly be a correlation to the increase in car accidents? Older drivers who passed their test many, many years ago when traffic was different really need brush up on their skills. The number of older drivers I see in very large powerful cars now is testament for the need to have a greater level of testing.

Discuss.
I see a great many drivers in this area using mobile phones but they never seem to be the older drivers you are focussing on.
I wouldn't object to some form of assessment for older drivers but in my view the real problem is the lack of enforcement of existing law by the police. The only time using a mobile phone becomes an issue is following an accident...that's too late.
Finally, your views aren't supported by the insurance industry which has expertise in assessing risk and clearly considers young drivers to be more of a problem.
We could rely on the Police to enforce the law as regards bad driving, but that takes the onus away from the individual to take personal responsibility.

Its a bit like parents asking teachers to make children behave well but failing to take any responsibility for ensuring good behaviour themselves.

This is always going to be a contentious issue. After all, everyone who can thinks it is a God given right to drive around in a ton and a half of metal, at high speed, with 20 gallons of extremely flammable liquid on board.

I suggest you read this summary from the AA http://www.theaa.com
/public_affairs/repo
rts/older-drivers.ht
ml

Whilst I agree you get some poor drivers at the younger end of things, you also get poor driving at the older end too and with an increasingly aged population, this is set to get worse.

Unless that is the Government legislates to test older drivers:-

Oh but they won't do that as older people tend to vote Conservative and with our broken electoral system, the Conservatives wouldn't do that as they don't want to face the backlash.
[quote][p][bold]Hoad Hill[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Kendal lad[/bold] wrote: I have commented many times on the issue of driving standards within our county. The driving seen on the A65 through to Skipton is at times appalling. The number of accidents that have occurred on that stretch recently are testament to that. I regularly have to avoid drivers who fail to know how wide their cars are, who don't appear to know what the correct speed limit for the road and the conditions are, can't anticipate what other road users are likely to do. This is not a gender issue. I am male driver who has driven for many years, and lived in the county all my life. The issues I have witnessed tend to be perpetrated by older drivers who really don't know how to drive on our narrow roads. They get worried when lorries come near them, speed up and slow down going into corners, panic when going past overgrown hedges, don't know that the white line in the middle of the road mean etc. Before I receive the ire of all you older residents who will no doubt think I being ageist, I am not. I too am an older driver. However, it has becoming increasingly clear to me that mandatory testing for the over 70's should be legislated for. This is not an attempt to stop older drivers using their cars in our extensively rural community, I too need a car (due to the appalling bus service:- that's another gripe though). We have more older people retiring to our county (the baby boomers). Can there possibly be a correlation to the increase in car accidents? Older drivers who passed their test many, many years ago when traffic was different really need brush up on their skills. The number of older drivers I see in very large powerful cars now is testament for the need to have a greater level of testing. Discuss.[/p][/quote]I see a great many drivers in this area using mobile phones but they never seem to be the older drivers you are focussing on. I wouldn't object to some form of assessment for older drivers but in my view the real problem is the lack of enforcement of existing law by the police. The only time using a mobile phone becomes an issue is following an accident...that's too late. Finally, your views aren't supported by the insurance industry which has expertise in assessing risk and clearly considers young drivers to be more of a problem.[/p][/quote]We could rely on the Police to enforce the law as regards bad driving, but that takes the onus away from the individual to take personal responsibility. Its a bit like parents asking teachers to make children behave well but failing to take any responsibility for ensuring good behaviour themselves. This is always going to be a contentious issue. After all, everyone who can thinks it is a God given right to drive around in a ton and a half of metal, at high speed, with 20 gallons of extremely flammable liquid on board. I suggest you read this summary from the AA http://www.theaa.com /public_affairs/repo rts/older-drivers.ht ml Whilst I agree you get some poor drivers at the younger end of things, you also get poor driving at the older end too and with an increasingly aged population, this is set to get worse. Unless that is the Government legislates to test older drivers:- Oh but they won't do that as older people tend to vote Conservative and with our broken electoral system, the Conservatives wouldn't do that as they don't want to face the backlash. Kendal lad
  • Score: -10

5:13pm Wed 30 Jul 14

couldn't make it up says...

Spend billions on a silly rail link that is going to save 20 mins or so on a journey that hardly benefits anyone, is the forward thinking of this shambles of freeloaders.
Making a good link to West Cumbria and upgrading the A66 to dual carriageway status from the M6 to Workington and spending a small fortune upgrading the port so ferries can go from there to iom and Ireland.
That would be far more beneficial long term in my eyes.
Back to the topic.....that is why there's so many deaths in this area....lack of investment in road standards.
Spend billions on a silly rail link that is going to save 20 mins or so on a journey that hardly benefits anyone, is the forward thinking of this shambles of freeloaders. Making a good link to West Cumbria and upgrading the A66 to dual carriageway status from the M6 to Workington and spending a small fortune upgrading the port so ferries can go from there to iom and Ireland. That would be far more beneficial long term in my eyes. Back to the topic.....that is why there's so many deaths in this area....lack of investment in road standards. couldn't make it up
  • Score: 11

5:25am Fri 1 Aug 14

Grumpyoldbiker says...

I now have a crystal ball fitted to my motorbike. As drivers do not use their indicators anymore, it is the only way I can tell which exit they intend to take at roundabouts.
I now have a crystal ball fitted to my motorbike. As drivers do not use their indicators anymore, it is the only way I can tell which exit they intend to take at roundabouts. Grumpyoldbiker
  • Score: 6

5:57am Fri 1 Aug 14

Whinfell says...

The aggressive impatient driving I witness on the road to hell, aka the Barrow road, is mainly the preserve of male drivers: seldom see females or the elderly driving like idiots along this highway.
The ultimate result of this testosterone fuelled stupidity is the case reported in the national press.A car driver engaged in road rage with a lorry driver ended with the former being killed when the assailant ran over his head.
What a lovely world we live in!
The aggressive impatient driving I witness on the road to hell, aka the Barrow road, is mainly the preserve of male drivers: seldom see females or the elderly driving like idiots along this highway. The ultimate result of this testosterone fuelled stupidity is the case reported in the national press.A car driver engaged in road rage with a lorry driver ended with the former being killed when the assailant ran over his head. What a lovely world we live in! Whinfell
  • Score: -6

9:41am Fri 1 Aug 14

drixhen says...

Now people have had a rant about older car drivers let me have mine
what about the bl***y idiots on motor cycles who treat the roads as if they
are racing in the I.O.M at the weekends .
I am not knocking all motorcyclists as Iam sure there are more responsable
ones (ex motorcyclist myself) but it has come that I personally hate going
out in my car at the weekend especially on the roads leading to devils bridge at Kirkby Lonsdale
Now people have had a rant about older car drivers let me have mine what about the bl***y idiots on motor cycles who treat the roads as if they are racing in the I.O.M at the weekends . I am not knocking all motorcyclists as Iam sure there are more responsable ones (ex motorcyclist myself) but it has come that I personally hate going out in my car at the weekend especially on the roads leading to devils bridge at Kirkby Lonsdale drixhen
  • Score: 0

10:15am Fri 1 Aug 14

Kendal lad says...

drixhen wrote:
Now people have had a rant about older car drivers let me have mine
what about the bl***y idiots on motor cycles who treat the roads as if they
are racing in the I.O.M at the weekends .
I am not knocking all motorcyclists as Iam sure there are more responsable
ones (ex motorcyclist myself) but it has come that I personally hate going
out in my car at the weekend especially on the roads leading to devils bridge at Kirkby Lonsdale
Its not a rant about older drivers.

I am suggesting that there is a correlation between the clear number of older people who are retiring to the Lakes and buying up all the property (thus driving up prices:- another whinge), and the increasing level of accidents on the roads. People who are not used to driving on country roads as they have lived in a town all their lives.

As for motor cyclists, yes some can drive aggressively, but lots don't. Some car drivers are aggressive, lots aren't.

The majority of accidents on the 590 to Barrow are where there are older drivers involved or people on holiday who are unfamiliar with the twists, turns and (at places) narrowness. Same with the 65.

Reducing the speed on the 65 from 60 down to 40 through Lupton etc has done nothing to cut accidents. All it has done is pent up peoples frustration with poor drivers and then when you get to the Kirkby Lonsdale 'motorway' (past the garage) people go hell for leather to get past the idiot drivers.
[quote][p][bold]drixhen[/bold] wrote: Now people have had a rant about older car drivers let me have mine what about the bl***y idiots on motor cycles who treat the roads as if they are racing in the I.O.M at the weekends . I am not knocking all motorcyclists as Iam sure there are more responsable ones (ex motorcyclist myself) but it has come that I personally hate going out in my car at the weekend especially on the roads leading to devils bridge at Kirkby Lonsdale[/p][/quote]Its not a rant about older drivers. I am suggesting that there is a correlation between the clear number of older people who are retiring to the Lakes and buying up all the property (thus driving up prices:- another whinge), and the increasing level of accidents on the roads. People who are not used to driving on country roads as they have lived in a town all their lives. As for motor cyclists, yes some can drive aggressively, but lots don't. Some car drivers are aggressive, lots aren't. The majority of accidents on the 590 to Barrow are where there are older drivers involved or people on holiday who are unfamiliar with the twists, turns and (at places) narrowness. Same with the 65. Reducing the speed on the 65 from 60 down to 40 through Lupton etc has done nothing to cut accidents. All it has done is pent up peoples frustration with poor drivers and then when you get to the Kirkby Lonsdale 'motorway' (past the garage) people go hell for leather to get past the idiot drivers. Kendal lad
  • Score: 2

12:07pm Fri 1 Aug 14

WilliamT says...

Both counties are also the worst where it comes to cyclist death and injury. At least where Lancashire is concerned, the police have the attitude that since the death/ injury couldn't have occurred without the cyclist being present, it is therefore the fault of the cyclist. If you are a motorist who isn't worried about killing/ maiming cyclists, then Lancashire is the place for you- you'll almost certainly get away with it.
Both counties are also the worst where it comes to cyclist death and injury. At least where Lancashire is concerned, the police have the attitude that since the death/ injury couldn't have occurred without the cyclist being present, it is therefore the fault of the cyclist. If you are a motorist who isn't worried about killing/ maiming cyclists, then Lancashire is the place for you- you'll almost certainly get away with it. WilliamT
  • Score: -7

12:34pm Fri 1 Aug 14

Whinfell says...

Kendal Lad- To say the majority of accidents are caused by older drivers implies you have hard and fat statistics on the age of all drivers involved in collisions on the local roads.
Care to share them with us are you merely second-guessing?
Kendal Lad- To say the majority of accidents are caused by older drivers implies you have hard and fat statistics on the age of all drivers involved in collisions on the local roads. Care to share them with us are you merely second-guessing? Whinfell
  • Score: -2

3:52pm Fri 1 Aug 14

Hoad Hill says...

Kendal lad wrote:
drixhen wrote:
Now people have had a rant about older car drivers let me have mine
what about the bl***y idiots on motor cycles who treat the roads as if they
are racing in the I.O.M at the weekends .
I am not knocking all motorcyclists as Iam sure there are more responsable
ones (ex motorcyclist myself) but it has come that I personally hate going
out in my car at the weekend especially on the roads leading to devils bridge at Kirkby Lonsdale
Its not a rant about older drivers.

I am suggesting that there is a correlation between the clear number of older people who are retiring to the Lakes and buying up all the property (thus driving up prices:- another whinge), and the increasing level of accidents on the roads. People who are not used to driving on country roads as they have lived in a town all their lives.

As for motor cyclists, yes some can drive aggressively, but lots don't. Some car drivers are aggressive, lots aren't.

The majority of accidents on the 590 to Barrow are where there are older drivers involved or people on holiday who are unfamiliar with the twists, turns and (at places) narrowness. Same with the 65.

Reducing the speed on the 65 from 60 down to 40 through Lupton etc has done nothing to cut accidents. All it has done is pent up peoples frustration with poor drivers and then when you get to the Kirkby Lonsdale 'motorway' (past the garage) people go hell for leather to get past the idiot drivers.
If you are going to persist in this attack on older drivers then you should cut the rhetoric and produce some facts to support you rant. I live by the A590, in fact I'm looking at it right now, and I don't believe that the majority of accidents are caused either by "older drivers or visitors".
The suggestion that anyone who has lived in a town is in some way unable to drive on these roads is ludicrous. You will find that drivers with experience of roads in more densely populated areas have much better lane discipline than is evident around here. I never cease to be amazed at the way drivers in this area try to straighten the bends by crossing the white lines.
As an aside I'm a Cumbrian whose had a licence for close on 60 years and having spent much of my life in South Lancs/Cheshire, I'm ashamed to say that driving standards around here are the worst I've ever encountered.
[quote][p][bold]Kendal lad[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]drixhen[/bold] wrote: Now people have had a rant about older car drivers let me have mine what about the bl***y idiots on motor cycles who treat the roads as if they are racing in the I.O.M at the weekends . I am not knocking all motorcyclists as Iam sure there are more responsable ones (ex motorcyclist myself) but it has come that I personally hate going out in my car at the weekend especially on the roads leading to devils bridge at Kirkby Lonsdale[/p][/quote]Its not a rant about older drivers. I am suggesting that there is a correlation between the clear number of older people who are retiring to the Lakes and buying up all the property (thus driving up prices:- another whinge), and the increasing level of accidents on the roads. People who are not used to driving on country roads as they have lived in a town all their lives. As for motor cyclists, yes some can drive aggressively, but lots don't. Some car drivers are aggressive, lots aren't. The majority of accidents on the 590 to Barrow are where there are older drivers involved or people on holiday who are unfamiliar with the twists, turns and (at places) narrowness. Same with the 65. Reducing the speed on the 65 from 60 down to 40 through Lupton etc has done nothing to cut accidents. All it has done is pent up peoples frustration with poor drivers and then when you get to the Kirkby Lonsdale 'motorway' (past the garage) people go hell for leather to get past the idiot drivers.[/p][/quote]If you are going to persist in this attack on older drivers then you should cut the rhetoric and produce some facts to support you rant. I live by the A590, in fact I'm looking at it right now, and I don't believe that the majority of accidents are caused either by "older drivers or visitors". The suggestion that anyone who has lived in a town is in some way unable to drive on these roads is ludicrous. You will find that drivers with experience of roads in more densely populated areas have much better lane discipline than is evident around here. I never cease to be amazed at the way drivers in this area try to straighten the bends by crossing the white lines. As an aside I'm a Cumbrian whose had a licence for close on 60 years and having spent much of my life in South Lancs/Cheshire, I'm ashamed to say that driving standards around here are the worst I've ever encountered. Hoad Hill
  • Score: -2

4:45pm Fri 1 Aug 14

Whinfell says...

Hoad Hill- I agree.
The Police and Traffic authorities will have precise details of the ages and addresses of drivers in recorded accidents.I doubt Kendal Lad has a clue about their ages and origins.
I haven't got the facts at my finger tips.
One thing I know:I drive on the road regularly and I see stupid overtaking and excessive speeds.It has never occurred to me that the culprits are doddery old people out and about on a Sunday trip to Grange.
Hoad Hill- I agree. The Police and Traffic authorities will have precise details of the ages and addresses of drivers in recorded accidents.I doubt Kendal Lad has a clue about their ages and origins. I haven't got the facts at my finger tips. One thing I know:I drive on the road regularly and I see stupid overtaking and excessive speeds.It has never occurred to me that the culprits are doddery old people out and about on a Sunday trip to Grange. Whinfell
  • Score: 0

10:45am Sat 2 Aug 14

Kendal lad says...

Whinfell wrote:
Hoad Hill- I agree.
The Police and Traffic authorities will have precise details of the ages and addresses of drivers in recorded accidents.I doubt Kendal Lad has a clue about their ages and origins.
I haven't got the facts at my finger tips.
One thing I know:I drive on the road regularly and I see stupid overtaking and excessive speeds.It has never occurred to me that the culprits are doddery old people out and about on a Sunday trip to Grange.
Strangely enough, I don't hold the accidents statistics for the road.

However, a cursory glance at the reports in both the WG and the Evening Mail, and you will find plenty of information regarding the ages of those recently involved in accidents on that particular road.

I would refer you to my original post. I see the ire has rained down !!
[quote][p][bold]Whinfell[/bold] wrote: Hoad Hill- I agree. The Police and Traffic authorities will have precise details of the ages and addresses of drivers in recorded accidents.I doubt Kendal Lad has a clue about their ages and origins. I haven't got the facts at my finger tips. One thing I know:I drive on the road regularly and I see stupid overtaking and excessive speeds.It has never occurred to me that the culprits are doddery old people out and about on a Sunday trip to Grange.[/p][/quote]Strangely enough, I don't hold the accidents statistics for the road. However, a cursory glance at the reports in both the WG and the Evening Mail, and you will find plenty of information regarding the ages of those recently involved in accidents on that particular road. I would refer you to my original post. I see the ire has rained down !! Kendal lad
  • Score: -5

11:20am Sat 2 Aug 14

WilliamT says...

The dangerous drivers are 'white van man' and 'self proclaimed ace driver' (for whom you don't have to look too far) along with 'woman with children in massive 4WD' who isn't even looking at the road. Doddery old drivers are a bit of a pain, especially when pulling out of the supermarket in their motorised shopping trolleys, because they aren't looking either- but they're not a major problem on the open road, being far outnumbered by the other types.
The dangerous drivers are 'white van man' and 'self proclaimed ace driver' (for whom you don't have to look too far) along with 'woman with children in massive 4WD' who isn't even looking at the road. Doddery old drivers are a bit of a pain, especially when pulling out of the supermarket in their motorised shopping trolleys, because they aren't looking either- but they're not a major problem on the open road, being far outnumbered by the other types. WilliamT
  • Score: -2

12:38pm Sat 2 Aug 14

Whinfell says...

Not surprisingly Kendal Lad can't quote any firm facts and figures to back his unfounded claims up.
Not surprisingly Kendal Lad can't quote any firm facts and figures to back his unfounded claims up. Whinfell
  • Score: -5

8:30pm Sat 2 Aug 14

kendal brat says...

There are a few distinct groups at serious risk of dying on the road.

They are:-
Drink and drug drivers
Boy racers (of all ages and genders)
Motorcyclists using the road as a race track
Illegal drivers
Tired drivers
Elderly drivers

These groups cause more than 80% of fatal collisions in our county, mostly killing themselves.

Elderly drivers are many times more at risk of being involved in a fatal collision for a few reasons.
They are generally more frail, and more likely to die from an impact
Sometimes a pre-existing condition may cause the accident
Their reactions are generally. slower
Their vision, especially night vision, is often poorer.
Their coordination is often poorer.
Their mobility (being able to look over their shoulder at slip roads) is poorer.
Many passed their tests a long time ago, when roads were much quieter.

These are facts, and older people do die more often as a consequence. I know that Ian Smith, our coroner has sent letters to the DfT regarding his concerns about the number of elderly drivers dying, especially as they only have to self certify their fitness to continue to drive beyond 70.
There are a few distinct groups at serious risk of dying on the road. They are:- Drink and drug drivers Boy racers (of all ages and genders) Motorcyclists using the road as a race track Illegal drivers Tired drivers Elderly drivers These groups cause more than 80% of fatal collisions in our county, mostly killing themselves. Elderly drivers are many times more at risk of being involved in a fatal collision for a few reasons. They are generally more frail, and more likely to die from an impact Sometimes a pre-existing condition may cause the accident Their reactions are generally. slower Their vision, especially night vision, is often poorer. Their coordination is often poorer. Their mobility (being able to look over their shoulder at slip roads) is poorer. Many passed their tests a long time ago, when roads were much quieter. These are facts, and older people do die more often as a consequence. I know that Ian Smith, our coroner has sent letters to the DfT regarding his concerns about the number of elderly drivers dying, especially as they only have to self certify their fitness to continue to drive beyond 70. kendal brat
  • Score: 5

4:35am Sun 3 Aug 14

life cycle too says...

The release of these figures in this fashion by the IAM with no context or additional evidence, is on a par with the statistical juggling of the Speed Camera Partnerships!

1. Cumbria is one of the larger counties, with many more miles of roads than some others.
2. Cumbria has less urban roads compared to rural roads, than other counties - urban roads with traffic jams don't tend to result in as many accidents.
3. The figures refer solely to the unfortunate victims, NOT the number of actual incidents that led to them.
So for instance a vehicle with 4 occupants who are all injured becomes statistically more serious than a vehicle with just a single occupant who is injured.

Road safety is a complex issue with many many factors involved, and cannot be addressed with knee jerk reactions to a few tragic incidents... that's like trying to fix a wobbly table by cutting off bits of the legs with an axe!

The most common faults I see on our roads are impatience in ALL driver ages and gender, a lack of attention and forethought, and a lack of consideration for the other road users.
Less common, but of equal importance are sections of road that have been poorly laid out and marked, and even as has been mentioned, had ridiculous speed limits applied in the hope of instilling better behaviour in drivers!
The release of these figures in this fashion by the IAM with no context or additional evidence, is on a par with the statistical juggling of the Speed Camera Partnerships! 1. Cumbria is one of the larger counties, with many more miles of roads than some others. 2. Cumbria has less urban roads compared to rural roads, than other counties - urban roads with traffic jams don't tend to result in as many accidents. 3. The figures refer solely to the unfortunate victims, NOT the number of actual incidents that led to them. So for instance a vehicle with 4 occupants who are all injured becomes statistically more serious than a vehicle with just a single occupant who is injured. Road safety is a complex issue with many many factors involved, and cannot be addressed with knee jerk reactions to a few tragic incidents... that's like trying to fix a wobbly table by cutting off bits of the legs with an axe! The most common faults I see on our roads are impatience in ALL driver ages and gender, a lack of attention and forethought, and a lack of consideration for the other road users. Less common, but of equal importance are sections of road that have been poorly laid out and marked, and even as has been mentioned, had ridiculous speed limits applied in the hope of instilling better behaviour in drivers! life cycle too
  • Score: 0

10:49am Sun 3 Aug 14

Whinfell says...

Kendal brat refers to boy racers of all ages and genders!
How can a boy racer be anything but a male ?
Kendal brat refers to boy racers of all ages and genders! How can a boy racer be anything but a male ?[unless they are a ladyboy] Whinfell
  • Score: -7

1:05pm Sun 3 Aug 14

Whinfell says...

Kendal brat's list is-
Drink and drug drivers
Boy racers (of all ages and genders)
Motorcyclists using the road as a race track
Illegal drivers
Tired drivers
Elderly drivers

Even though elderly drivers are only most likely to be also included in the 'tired driver' group he hones in on them and singles them out.
Strangely there is no mention of commercial drivers in the list.
A high risk group purely because they do far more miles than the average driver.
This will increase the risk factor of having an accident.
When I witness the aftermath of road accidents it is not surprising to see a HGV,truck,van and other commercial vehicles involved.
Kendal brat's list is- Drink and drug drivers Boy racers (of all ages and genders) Motorcyclists using the road as a race track Illegal drivers Tired drivers Elderly drivers Even though elderly drivers are only most likely to be also included in the 'tired driver' group he hones in on them and singles them out. Strangely there is no mention of commercial drivers in the list. A high risk group purely because they do far more miles than the average driver. This will increase the risk factor of having an accident. When I witness the aftermath of road accidents it is not surprising to see a HGV,truck,van and other commercial vehicles involved. Whinfell
  • Score: -8

3:21pm Sun 3 Aug 14

kendal brat says...

Whinfell wrote:
Kendal brat refers to boy racers of all ages and genders!
How can a boy racer be anything but a male ?
"Boy racer" is a term used to describe the attitude that causes a young male to take risks and drive beyond his skill level. It is an attitude often characterised in young males usually trying to show off to themselves or others, but the attitude is not specific to them.
[quote][p][bold]Whinfell[/bold] wrote: Kendal brat refers to boy racers of all ages and genders! How can a boy racer be anything but a male ?[unless they are a ladyboy][/p][/quote]"Boy racer" is a term used to describe the attitude that causes a young male to take risks and drive beyond his skill level. It is an attitude often characterised in young males usually trying to show off to themselves or others, but the attitude is not specific to them. kendal brat
  • Score: -5

3:37pm Sun 3 Aug 14

kendal brat says...

Whinfell wrote:
Kendal brat's list is-
Drink and drug drivers
Boy racers (of all ages and genders)
Motorcyclists using the road as a race track
Illegal drivers
Tired drivers
Elderly drivers

Even though elderly drivers are only most likely to be also included in the 'tired driver' group he hones in on them and singles them out.
Strangely there is no mention of commercial drivers in the list.
A high risk group purely because they do far more miles than the average driver.
This will increase the risk factor of having an accident.
When I witness the aftermath of road accidents it is not surprising to see a HGV,truck,van and other commercial vehicles involved.
I've never known tiredness being a significant cause of fatal collisions involving elderly drivers, so I don't agree with you. Elderly drivers are significantly more involved in fatal collisions per mile driven than all other age groups except perhaps the 16 to 24 age category. Commercial drivers are way underrepresented per mile driven. Hgv drivers and other commercial drivers can be at risk from tiredness, due to the tedium of driving long distances often on quiet roads.
[quote][p][bold]Whinfell[/bold] wrote: Kendal brat's list is- Drink and drug drivers Boy racers (of all ages and genders) Motorcyclists using the road as a race track Illegal drivers Tired drivers Elderly drivers Even though elderly drivers are only most likely to be also included in the 'tired driver' group he hones in on them and singles them out. Strangely there is no mention of commercial drivers in the list. A high risk group purely because they do far more miles than the average driver. This will increase the risk factor of having an accident. When I witness the aftermath of road accidents it is not surprising to see a HGV,truck,van and other commercial vehicles involved.[/p][/quote]I've never known tiredness being a significant cause of fatal collisions involving elderly drivers, so I don't agree with you. Elderly drivers are significantly more involved in fatal collisions per mile driven than all other age groups except perhaps the 16 to 24 age category. Commercial drivers are way underrepresented per mile driven. Hgv drivers and other commercial drivers can be at risk from tiredness, due to the tedium of driving long distances often on quiet roads. kendal brat
  • Score: -4

4:05pm Sun 3 Aug 14

Whinfell says...

What a daft comment about never knowing tiredness being a factor for elderly drivers!Accidents due to tiredness can be caused by drivers of all ages.
As if Kendal brat has data on elderly drivers being tired,or not when they have an accident.
Another unfounded generalisation.
I presume you have some published data to back up your claim?
Insurers don't charge higher rates for fun.They are recognised as high risk because they drive more miles than the average private diver.
What a daft comment about never knowing tiredness being a factor for elderly drivers!Accidents due to tiredness can be caused by drivers of all ages. As if Kendal brat has data on elderly drivers being tired,or not when they have an accident. Another unfounded generalisation. I presume you have some published data to back up your claim? Insurers don't charge higher rates for fun.They are recognised as high risk because they drive more miles than the average private diver. Whinfell
  • Score: -8

9:46pm Sun 3 Aug 14

PropMeUpWithTeabags says...

I drive in the south a lot and the driving down there is pretty poor. The roads however are much, much better down there. Up here The A65 is a bad road so is the road to Barrow, factor in an more aged population and tourists that are lost or don't know the road well and you are bound to get more accidents.
I drive in the south a lot and the driving down there is pretty poor. The roads however are much, much better down there. Up here The A65 is a bad road so is the road to Barrow, factor in an more aged population and tourists that are lost or don't know the road well and you are bound to get more accidents. PropMeUpWithTeabags
  • Score: -2

9:54pm Sun 3 Aug 14

Herdy says...

Have to agree the standard of driving here is shocking.
I drive from Grange to the Brettargh holt roundabout most days and almost everyday witness bad driving.
Very few people use indicators even on roundabouts, and the Greystones petrol station part of the A590 is a racetrack. Full of impatient drivers who start their overtaking moves after the dual carriageway starts to merge into one lane on the white end of lane arrows. WHY...?
Tailgating, speeding and overtaking on blind bends and pulling out of junctions when their patience runs out is seen most days.
The road layouts do not help, on the dual carriageways where speeds are near motorway limits you have cut across access points so you can cross four lanes....what's that all about.... You never know if people will just get fed up and pull out. A sure recipe for disaster.
Another example is where the A6 joins the A590 from Milnthorpe, no body stops to give way, just pulls out. Fine if you have no one on your right and you can switch lanes, but if you have traffic there and someone pulls out you have nowhere to go.
The roads could be made safer with a little help and common sense.
Have to agree the standard of driving here is shocking. I drive from Grange to the Brettargh holt roundabout most days and almost everyday witness bad driving. Very few people use indicators even on roundabouts, and the Greystones petrol station part of the A590 is a racetrack. Full of impatient drivers who start their overtaking moves after the dual carriageway starts to merge into one lane on the white end of lane arrows. WHY...? Tailgating, speeding and overtaking on blind bends and pulling out of junctions when their patience runs out is seen most days. The road layouts do not help, on the dual carriageways where speeds are near motorway limits you have cut across access points so you can cross four lanes....what's that all about.... You never know if people will just get fed up and pull out. A sure recipe for disaster. Another example is where the A6 joins the A590 from Milnthorpe, no body stops to give way, just pulls out. Fine if you have no one on your right and you can switch lanes, but if you have traffic there and someone pulls out you have nowhere to go. The roads could be made safer with a little help and common sense. Herdy
  • Score: -1

9:58am Mon 4 Aug 14

kendal brat says...

Whinfell wrote:
What a daft comment about never knowing tiredness being a factor for elderly drivers!Accidents due to tiredness can be caused by drivers of all ages.
As if Kendal brat has data on elderly drivers being tired,or not when they have an accident.
Another unfounded generalisation.
I presume you have some published data to back up your claim?
Insurers don't charge higher rates for fun.They are recognised as high risk because they drive more miles than the average private diver.
If you categorise elderly drivers as those over 75 they tend to be drivers who have time on their hands, and have little or no need to drive while tired. They also tend to drive much shorter distances at a time, often with no compulsion to arrive at a destination at a particular time, or after a busy day at work. I've never known of a fatal collision in this county caused by an elderly driver falling asleep at the wheel.
I do have many facts and figures at my disposal. You don't have to agree with what I believe to be true, but if you do believe elderly drivers crash because they are tired, you should offer reason for your disagreeing with me, to back up your assertion.
Road safety has for too long relied on treating the wrong type of stereotype, eg dealing with speed rather that the attitude that causes inappropriate speed. It should be looking much more cleverly at the attitudes drivers bring to the road, and the reasons why those attitudes arise. We should also be looking at the reasons why drivers make omissions while driving, eg they don't observe something until too late.

Often, we blame everyone else for bad driving, but, to any other driver, we are everyone else.

But there are negative attitudes, influences and omissions that make certain driver groups (those I highlighted earlier) much more at risk of causing a serious accident. Working to reduce the risks posed by these groups is the best way to make serious inroads into fatality reduction.
[quote][p][bold]Whinfell[/bold] wrote: What a daft comment about never knowing tiredness being a factor for elderly drivers!Accidents due to tiredness can be caused by drivers of all ages. As if Kendal brat has data on elderly drivers being tired,or not when they have an accident. Another unfounded generalisation. I presume you have some published data to back up your claim? Insurers don't charge higher rates for fun.They are recognised as high risk because they drive more miles than the average private diver.[/p][/quote]If you categorise elderly drivers as those over 75 they tend to be drivers who have time on their hands, and have little or no need to drive while tired. They also tend to drive much shorter distances at a time, often with no compulsion to arrive at a destination at a particular time, or after a busy day at work. I've never known of a fatal collision in this county caused by an elderly driver falling asleep at the wheel. I do have many facts and figures at my disposal. You don't have to agree with what I believe to be true, but if you do believe elderly drivers crash because they are tired, you should offer reason for your disagreeing with me, to back up your assertion. Road safety has for too long relied on treating the wrong type of stereotype, eg dealing with speed rather that the attitude that causes inappropriate speed. It should be looking much more cleverly at the attitudes drivers bring to the road, and the reasons why those attitudes arise. We should also be looking at the reasons why drivers make omissions while driving, eg they don't observe something until too late. Often, we blame everyone else for bad driving, but, to any other driver, we are everyone else. But there are negative attitudes, influences and omissions that make certain driver groups (those I highlighted earlier) much more at risk of causing a serious accident. Working to reduce the risks posed by these groups is the best way to make serious inroads into fatality reduction. kendal brat
  • Score: -5

1:18pm Mon 4 Aug 14

Whinfell says...

Provide us with the evidence Kendal Brat otherwise don't invent facts about elderly drivers and the link between accidents.
Provide us with the evidence Kendal Brat otherwise don't invent facts about elderly drivers and the link between accidents. Whinfell
  • Score: -7

1:25pm Mon 4 Aug 14

WilliamT says...

I suspect this is one person masquerading as two, and just inventing statistics and trying to present himself as an expert.
I suspect this is one person masquerading as two, and just inventing statistics and trying to present himself as an expert. WilliamT
  • Score: -6

4:26pm Mon 4 Aug 14

Whinfell says...

Couldn't agree more.
I mean,how he doesn't think tiredness can be an equal factor which causes accidents amongst the elderly, as much as any other age group does not make sense.
So once you reach the age of 65 or 70 you are less likely to have an accident than anyone younger, because you are tired is plain stupid.
If anything tiredness is more likely to be a factor amongst the older generation.Older people sometimes fall asleep at the drop of a hat.
Couldn't agree more. I mean,how he doesn't think tiredness can be an equal factor which causes accidents amongst the elderly, as much as any other age group does not make sense. So once you reach the age of 65 or 70 you are less likely to have an accident than anyone younger, because you are tired is plain stupid. If anything tiredness is more likely to be a factor amongst the older generation.Older people sometimes fall asleep at the drop of a hat. Whinfell
  • Score: -3

5:16pm Mon 4 Aug 14

kendal brat says...

Whinfell wrote:
Provide us with the evidence Kendal Brat otherwise don't invent facts about elderly drivers and the link between accidents.
I don't invent stuff whinfell, I'm just letting you know what the data would suggest. You can deride it at your leisure, but you would be wrong. The elderly driver pulling out from a junction into the path of a fast moving vehicle doesn't do so because he's tired. It's because he has failed to observe, or failed to properly control his vehicle. An elderly driver who deviates from a normal course and hits a tree is generally found to have suffered a heart attack or similar. The elderly driver who comes wrong way out of a motorway service station into the path of other vehicles may have got confused. Not tired.

Don't forget, you were the one who suggested a link between elderly drivers and tired drivers. I'm suggesting that from my experience, there Iis no evidence of it. Perhaps you could post a link to research to support your assertion.
If you know ' lifelong experience', he will be able to confirm that I have the experience to know this subject inside out. Perhaps William T will have all three of us down as my alter egos now. :-)
[quote][p][bold]Whinfell[/bold] wrote: Provide us with the evidence Kendal Brat otherwise don't invent facts about elderly drivers and the link between accidents.[/p][/quote]I don't invent stuff whinfell, I'm just letting you know what the data would suggest. You can deride it at your leisure, but you would be wrong. The elderly driver pulling out from a junction into the path of a fast moving vehicle doesn't do so because he's tired. It's because he has failed to observe, or failed to properly control his vehicle. An elderly driver who deviates from a normal course and hits a tree is generally found to have suffered a heart attack or similar. The elderly driver who comes wrong way out of a motorway service station into the path of other vehicles may have got confused. Not tired. Don't forget, you were the one who suggested a link between elderly drivers and tired drivers. I'm suggesting that from my experience, there Iis no evidence of it. Perhaps you could post a link to research to support your assertion. If you know ' lifelong experience', he will be able to confirm that I have the experience to know this subject inside out. Perhaps William T will have all three of us down as my alter egos now. :-) kendal brat
  • Score: -6

5:21pm Mon 4 Aug 14

kendal brat says...

Sorry, I meant 'life cycle' in the above post. Not 'lifelong experience'
Sorry, I meant 'life cycle' in the above post. Not 'lifelong experience' kendal brat
  • Score: -7

7:48pm Mon 4 Aug 14

PropMeUpWithTeabags says...

"Older people are more susceptible to fatigue. Long journeys are best avoided, especially after meals or alcohol." (Taken from the AA website about older drivers) http://www.theaa.com
/public_affairs/repo
rts/older-drivers.ht
ml If anyone is interested.
Although i don't have any particular problem with people driving in their old age they do drive quite slowly sometimes, way below the speed limit. On Saturday there was an old man doing 45mph ish in the middle lane on the M1. Older drivers are often more timid and hesitant and so more unpredictable or that is my experience. If I am following someone doing 35mph in a 60 mph stretch I will overtake them and by doing so may make silly mistakes.
"Older people are more susceptible to fatigue. Long journeys are best avoided, especially after meals or alcohol." (Taken from the AA website about older drivers) http://www.theaa.com /public_affairs/repo rts/older-drivers.ht ml If anyone is interested. Although i don't have any particular problem with people driving in their old age they do drive quite slowly sometimes, way below the speed limit. On Saturday there was an old man doing 45mph ish in the middle lane on the M1. Older drivers are often more timid and hesitant and so more unpredictable or that is my experience. If I am following someone doing 35mph in a 60 mph stretch I will overtake them and by doing so may make silly mistakes. PropMeUpWithTeabags
  • Score: -1

8:26pm Mon 4 Aug 14

Whinfell says...

Kendal brat- ask your mum.She will explain about how the elderly sometimes get tired.
Kendal brat- ask your mum.She will explain about how the elderly sometimes get tired. Whinfell
  • Score: -7

8:56am Tue 5 Aug 14

kendal brat says...

Whinfell wrote:
Kendal brat- ask your mum.She will explain about how the elderly sometimes get tired.
Personal is not clever Whinfell. My mother, a beautiful lady, died some 12 years ago.
Try to stick to the debating point, rather than debase your position with personal insult.
[quote][p][bold]Whinfell[/bold] wrote: Kendal brat- ask your mum.She will explain about how the elderly sometimes get tired.[/p][/quote]Personal is not clever Whinfell. My mother, a beautiful lady, died some 12 years ago. Try to stick to the debating point, rather than debase your position with personal insult. kendal brat
  • Score: -2

9:11am Tue 5 Aug 14

kendal brat says...

PropMeUpWithTeabags wrote:
"Older people are more susceptible to fatigue. Long journeys are best avoided, especially after meals or alcohol." (Taken from the AA website about older drivers) http://www.theaa.com

/public_affairs/repo

rts/older-drivers.ht

ml If anyone is interested.
Although i don't have any particular problem with people driving in their old age they do drive quite slowly sometimes, way below the speed limit. On Saturday there was an old man doing 45mph ish in the middle lane on the M1. Older drivers are often more timid and hesitant and so more unpredictable or that is my experience. If I am following someone doing 35mph in a 60 mph stretch I will overtake them and by doing so may make silly mistakes.
You are right. Older people are more susceptible to fatigue. But that doesn't translate into causation, because they take steps to mitigate this, whereas those who fall asleep at the wheel are generally those with a greater need to complete the journey, eg returning home from a nightshift, or a long haul up the motorway in a slow moving HGV.
[quote][p][bold]PropMeUpWithTeabags[/bold] wrote: "Older people are more susceptible to fatigue. Long journeys are best avoided, especially after meals or alcohol." (Taken from the AA website about older drivers) http://www.theaa.com /public_affairs/repo rts/older-drivers.ht ml If anyone is interested. Although i don't have any particular problem with people driving in their old age they do drive quite slowly sometimes, way below the speed limit. On Saturday there was an old man doing 45mph ish in the middle lane on the M1. Older drivers are often more timid and hesitant and so more unpredictable or that is my experience. If I am following someone doing 35mph in a 60 mph stretch I will overtake them and by doing so may make silly mistakes.[/p][/quote]You are right. Older people are more susceptible to fatigue. But that doesn't translate into causation, because they take steps to mitigate this, whereas those who fall asleep at the wheel are generally those with a greater need to complete the journey, eg returning home from a nightshift, or a long haul up the motorway in a slow moving HGV. kendal brat
  • Score: -5

9:11am Tue 5 Aug 14

kendal brat says...

PropMeUpWithTeabags wrote:
"Older people are more susceptible to fatigue. Long journeys are best avoided, especially after meals or alcohol." (Taken from the AA website about older drivers) http://www.theaa.com

/public_affairs/repo

rts/older-drivers.ht

ml If anyone is interested.
Although i don't have any particular problem with people driving in their old age they do drive quite slowly sometimes, way below the speed limit. On Saturday there was an old man doing 45mph ish in the middle lane on the M1. Older drivers are often more timid and hesitant and so more unpredictable or that is my experience. If I am following someone doing 35mph in a 60 mph stretch I will overtake them and by doing so may make silly mistakes.
You are right. Older people are more susceptible to fatigue. But that doesn't translate into causation, because they take steps to mitigate this, whereas those who fall asleep at the wheel are generally those with a greater need to complete the journey, eg returning home from a nightshift, or a long haul up the motorway in a slow moving HGV.
[quote][p][bold]PropMeUpWithTeabags[/bold] wrote: "Older people are more susceptible to fatigue. Long journeys are best avoided, especially after meals or alcohol." (Taken from the AA website about older drivers) http://www.theaa.com /public_affairs/repo rts/older-drivers.ht ml If anyone is interested. Although i don't have any particular problem with people driving in their old age they do drive quite slowly sometimes, way below the speed limit. On Saturday there was an old man doing 45mph ish in the middle lane on the M1. Older drivers are often more timid and hesitant and so more unpredictable or that is my experience. If I am following someone doing 35mph in a 60 mph stretch I will overtake them and by doing so may make silly mistakes.[/p][/quote]You are right. Older people are more susceptible to fatigue. But that doesn't translate into causation, because they take steps to mitigate this, whereas those who fall asleep at the wheel are generally those with a greater need to complete the journey, eg returning home from a nightshift, or a long haul up the motorway in a slow moving HGV. kendal brat
  • Score: -5

12:09pm Tue 5 Aug 14

Kendal lad says...

Just back from a trip up the motorway from Manchester to my home patch Kendal.

Coming off junction 36, behind an older driver. What did they do? Stop in the left hand lane at the roundabout to turn left. Thankfully I and the three cars behind me didn't drive up their proverbial. Totally incapable of reading the road markings. That left hand lane is clearly marked as a filter lane, not a stop and give way.

Then they proceeded to drive at 30 miles an hour and were clearly wobbling when the caravans went past to overtake. No doubt they thought the dual carriage-way was only a 60mph too (it is clearly marked as 70).

I take on board all the comments above and it is clear that some people posting here will never accept the fact that older drivers cause issues without independently verifiable statistics.

However, looking at the faces of the scared drivers around our roads who typically tend to be over a certain age, I am not surprised that this is a polarising debate. I refer you to my first posting:-

We have more older people retiring to our county (the baby boomers). Can there possibly be a correlation to the increase in car accidents? Older drivers who passed their test many, many years ago when traffic was different really need brush up on their skills. The number of older drivers I see in very large powerful cars now is testament for the need to have a greater level of testing.
Just back from a trip up the motorway from Manchester to my home patch Kendal. Coming off junction 36, behind an older driver. What did they do? Stop in the left hand lane at the roundabout to turn left. Thankfully I and the three cars behind me didn't drive up their proverbial. Totally incapable of reading the road markings. That left hand lane is clearly marked as a filter lane, not a stop and give way. Then they proceeded to drive at 30 miles an hour and were clearly wobbling when the caravans went past to overtake. No doubt they thought the dual carriage-way was only a 60mph too (it is clearly marked as 70). I take on board all the comments above and it is clear that some people posting here will never accept the fact that older drivers cause issues without independently verifiable statistics. However, looking at the faces of the scared drivers around our roads who typically tend to be over a certain age, I am not surprised that this is a polarising debate. I refer you to my first posting:- We have more older people retiring to our county (the baby boomers). Can there possibly be a correlation to the increase in car accidents? Older drivers who passed their test many, many years ago when traffic was different really need brush up on their skills. The number of older drivers I see in very large powerful cars now is testament for the need to have a greater level of testing. Kendal lad
  • Score: -2

12:48pm Tue 5 Aug 14

Big Deal says...

Various countries around the world carry out driving assessments by law with the elderly but the problem we have is time and time again our politicians are just worried about votes, if we bring in such a law they lose a lot of votes. The politicians are more interested in High speed rail for the south when they should be upgrading the rural norths aged and dangerous road infrastructure.

Before I'm accused of being ageist I'm not far from it in fact, what I am is realistic and a good percentage of elderly drivers are a menace. No fault of their own but at the end of the day the older we get the slower and more frail we get that's just life. In key locations such as high-speed junctions, high-speed roundabouts and slip roads onto motorways and dual carriageways - locations where drivers are required to look around quickly and make quick decisions - drivers over the age of 70 struggle.

For the last 10 years drivers over the age of 80 involved in accidents have been on a dramatic increase especially in the countryside, and performing overtaking manoeuvres on A roads and motorways. With a excessive ageing county compared to majority of other county's this will just get worse.

My elderly neighbour can hardly walk and it takes him 5 minutes to walk 25 meters to his car that he drives, should he be on the road? Of course not but in the eyes of the PC NHS suddenly stopping driving and a lack of mobility leads to depression, so doctors want to keep the elderly independent.

Only this morning when driving to work a elderly driver towing a caravan (that they had obviously forgot they was towing and not realised it was wider than their car) nearly wiped me out and caused me to slam on and reverse quickly as he kept coming towards me until he realised what was happening and stopped.

If on say the A66 to Keswick two cars travelling towards each other with a combined speed in excess of 140 Mph every millisecond counts and swift reflexes are needed in the event of a misjudged overtake.

I have been on scene of many Road Traffic Incidents around Cumbria and the above is my personal views from experience and statistics arriving to my office, oh and the majority of drink driving convictions in Cumbria are also over 55.

For those who will now attack me demanding statistics and evidence Google is your friend, and don't believe everything you read in the Mirror and what the BBC force feeds you.
Various countries around the world carry out driving assessments by law with the elderly but the problem we have is time and time again our politicians are just worried about votes, if we bring in such a law they lose a lot of votes. The politicians are more interested in High speed rail for the south when they should be upgrading the rural norths aged and dangerous road infrastructure. Before I'm accused of being ageist I'm not far from it in fact, what I am is realistic and a good percentage of elderly drivers are a menace. No fault of their own but at the end of the day the older we get the slower and more frail we get that's just life. In key locations such as high-speed junctions, high-speed roundabouts and slip roads onto motorways and dual carriageways - locations where drivers are required to look around quickly and make quick decisions - drivers over the age of 70 struggle. For the last 10 years drivers over the age of 80 involved in accidents have been on a dramatic increase especially in the countryside, and performing overtaking manoeuvres on A roads and motorways. With a excessive ageing county compared to majority of other county's this will just get worse. My elderly neighbour can hardly walk and it takes him 5 minutes to walk 25 meters to his car that he drives, should he be on the road? Of course not but in the eyes of the PC NHS suddenly stopping driving and a lack of mobility leads to depression, so doctors want to keep the elderly independent. Only this morning when driving to work a elderly driver towing a caravan (that they had obviously forgot they was towing and not realised it was wider than their car) nearly wiped me out and caused me to slam on and reverse quickly as he kept coming towards me until he realised what was happening and stopped. If on say the A66 to Keswick two cars travelling towards each other with a combined speed in excess of 140 Mph every millisecond counts and swift reflexes are needed in the event of a misjudged overtake. I have been on scene of many Road Traffic Incidents around Cumbria and the above is my personal views from experience and statistics arriving to my office, oh and the majority of drink driving convictions in Cumbria are also over 55. For those who will now attack me demanding statistics and evidence Google is your friend, and don't believe everything you read in the Mirror and what the BBC force feeds you. Big Deal
  • Score: -4

3:17pm Tue 5 Aug 14

Whinfell says...

Its a pity she didn't teach you the facts of life kendal brat e.g older people get get tired sometimes.
Its a pity she didn't teach you the facts of life kendal brat e.g older people get get tired sometimes. Whinfell
  • Score: -8

4:15pm Tue 5 Aug 14

Kendal lad says...

Whinfell wrote:
Its a pity she didn't teach you the facts of life kendal brat e.g older people get get tired sometimes.
Its true older people, younger people, HGV drivers etc all get tired sometimes.

The central tenet of the debate is:- are older drivers more or less likely to have an accident on country roads, and do they typically display driving standards that are not suitable for the road conditions? Yes to all.

Whinfell, you appear not to care two hoots about the previous posting by Kendal brat and have maintained your personal slight against them and their deceased mother. Shame on you.

Lively debate and opposing views are the cornerstone of our democracy. It is only when people start to lose the argument, that they choose the argument of last resort i.e. personal insults.

If you wish to have an opposing view to those of us who happen to feel older drivers contribute to the problems on our roads that is perfectly fine. However, engage in the debate not insults.
[quote][p][bold]Whinfell[/bold] wrote: Its a pity she didn't teach you the facts of life kendal brat e.g older people get get tired sometimes.[/p][/quote]Its true older people, younger people, HGV drivers etc all get tired sometimes. The central tenet of the debate is:- are older drivers more or less likely to have an accident on country roads, and do they typically display driving standards that are not suitable for the road conditions? Yes to all. Whinfell, you appear not to care two hoots about the previous posting by Kendal brat and have maintained your personal slight against them and their deceased mother. Shame on you. Lively debate and opposing views are the cornerstone of our democracy. It is only when people start to lose the argument, that they choose the argument of last resort i.e. personal insults. If you wish to have an opposing view to those of us who happen to feel older drivers contribute to the problems on our roads that is perfectly fine. However, engage in the debate not insults. Kendal lad
  • Score: -3

4:46pm Tue 5 Aug 14

Whinfell says...

Sounds like it's time to get the violins out again.
Sounds like it's time to get the violins out again. Whinfell
  • Score: -6

5:05pm Tue 5 Aug 14

Kendal lad says...

Whinfell wrote:
Sounds like it's time to get the violins out again.
Maybe not the violins.

How-about a bugle to sound the last post over your clear inability to engage in reasoned debate?
[quote][p][bold]Whinfell[/bold] wrote: Sounds like it's time to get the violins out again.[/p][/quote]Maybe not the violins. How-about a bugle to sound the last post over your clear inability to engage in reasoned debate? Kendal lad
  • Score: -5

5:40pm Tue 5 Aug 14

Whinfell says...

The violins are playing Enigma Variations in homage to your gut wrenching post Kendal lad.
The violins are playing Enigma Variations in homage to your gut wrenching post Kendal lad. Whinfell
  • Score: -3

6:13pm Tue 5 Aug 14

WilliamT says...

The interesting thing about these spats is how much is simply being made up. The dead giveaway is this 'taking offence'- someone simply asks another to 'ask his mother', and this is then 'taken offence' at because it is claimed said mother is dead. Someone else, who may be the same person, then goes on as if even mentioning the mother (almost everyone eventually gets a dead mother) is the most heinous crime on earth.
The interesting thing about these spats is how much is simply being made up. The dead giveaway is this 'taking offence'- someone simply asks another to 'ask his mother', and this is then 'taken offence' at because it is claimed said mother is dead. Someone else, who may be the same person, then goes on as if even mentioning the mother (almost everyone eventually gets a dead mother) is the most heinous crime on earth. WilliamT
  • Score: -6

6:37pm Tue 5 Aug 14

Whinfell says...

William T: I know where you are coming from.
I am sure a psychologist,or psychiatrist has written a paper on internet forum postings.
They would have a field day with this daft thread.
William T: I know where you are coming from. I am sure a psychologist,or psychiatrist has written a paper on internet forum postings. They would have a field day with this daft thread. Whinfell
  • Score: -3

7:35pm Tue 5 Aug 14

PropMeUpWithTeabags says...

If anyone bothered to read the article I submitted from the AA you would see that elderly drivers are generally more hesitant and drive slower and that although drivers in their 70s are as safe as drivers in their twenties when they pass 80 they are less safe. This is from an article that is there to give drivers tips on how to manage driving when you are older.
Also, Older people may take more medication that may make them drowsy, or they may be suffereing from poorer eyesight, hearing or forgetfulness.
If anyone bothered to read the article I submitted from the AA you would see that elderly drivers are generally more hesitant and drive slower and that although drivers in their 70s are as safe as drivers in their twenties when they pass 80 they are less safe. This is from an article that is there to give drivers tips on how to manage driving when you are older. Also, Older people may take more medication that may make them drowsy, or they may be suffereing from poorer eyesight, hearing or forgetfulness. PropMeUpWithTeabags
  • Score: -3

10:17pm Tue 5 Aug 14

kendal brat says...

PropMeUpWithTeabags wrote:
If anyone bothered to read the article I submitted from the AA you would see that elderly drivers are generally more hesitant and drive slower and that although drivers in their 70s are as safe as drivers in their twenties when they pass 80 they are less safe. This is from an article that is there to give drivers tips on how to manage driving when you are older.
Also, Older people may take more medication that may make them drowsy, or they may be suffereing from poorer eyesight, hearing or forgetfulness.
There is a safety/age inverse parabolic curved chart relating safety to driver age. Obviously it's very general taking little account of attitude or individual ability. The young driver and the very old driver are at significantly higher risk of causing serious collisions while driving, but for very different reasons.
[quote][p][bold]PropMeUpWithTeabags[/bold] wrote: If anyone bothered to read the article I submitted from the AA you would see that elderly drivers are generally more hesitant and drive slower and that although drivers in their 70s are as safe as drivers in their twenties when they pass 80 they are less safe. This is from an article that is there to give drivers tips on how to manage driving when you are older. Also, Older people may take more medication that may make them drowsy, or they may be suffereing from poorer eyesight, hearing or forgetfulness.[/p][/quote]There is a safety/age inverse parabolic curved chart relating safety to driver age. Obviously it's very general taking little account of attitude or individual ability. The young driver and the very old driver are at significantly higher risk of causing serious collisions while driving, but for very different reasons. kendal brat
  • Score: -4

8:48am Wed 6 Aug 14

Kendal lad says...

WilliamT wrote:
The interesting thing about these spats is how much is simply being made up. The dead giveaway is this 'taking offence'- someone simply asks another to 'ask his mother', and this is then 'taken offence' at because it is claimed said mother is dead. Someone else, who may be the same person, then goes on as if even mentioning the mother (almost everyone eventually gets a dead mother) is the most heinous crime on earth.
Brat and I are not one and the same and the fact that their mother has passed is not the point. The point was posting personal slights is not the done thing.

Unless of course you are losing an argument when all the 'bully' has left is to resort to postings of a personal nature.
[quote][p][bold]WilliamT[/bold] wrote: The interesting thing about these spats is how much is simply being made up. The dead giveaway is this 'taking offence'- someone simply asks another to 'ask his mother', and this is then 'taken offence' at because it is claimed said mother is dead. Someone else, who may be the same person, then goes on as if even mentioning the mother (almost everyone eventually gets a dead mother) is the most heinous crime on earth.[/p][/quote]Brat and I are not one and the same and the fact that their mother has passed is not the point. The point was posting personal slights is not the done thing. Unless of course you are losing an argument when all the 'bully' has left is to resort to postings of a personal nature. Kendal lad
  • Score: 0

8:51am Wed 6 Aug 14

Kendal lad says...

PropMeUpWithTeabags wrote:
If anyone bothered to read the article I submitted from the AA you would see that elderly drivers are generally more hesitant and drive slower and that although drivers in their 70s are as safe as drivers in their twenties when they pass 80 they are less safe. This is from an article that is there to give drivers tips on how to manage driving when you are older.
Also, Older people may take more medication that may make them drowsy, or they may be suffereing from poorer eyesight, hearing or forgetfulness.
Quite correct. I too posted this information but all the nay sayers who simply saw this thread as an attack on the elderly, wouldn't bother to look at this piece of information.

Too busy being personal and staying in their bunkers.
[quote][p][bold]PropMeUpWithTeabags[/bold] wrote: If anyone bothered to read the article I submitted from the AA you would see that elderly drivers are generally more hesitant and drive slower and that although drivers in their 70s are as safe as drivers in their twenties when they pass 80 they are less safe. This is from an article that is there to give drivers tips on how to manage driving when you are older. Also, Older people may take more medication that may make them drowsy, or they may be suffereing from poorer eyesight, hearing or forgetfulness.[/p][/quote]Quite correct. I too posted this information but all the nay sayers who simply saw this thread as an attack on the elderly, wouldn't bother to look at this piece of information. Too busy being personal and staying in their bunkers. Kendal lad
  • Score: 0

10:14am Wed 6 Aug 14

Whinfell says...

William T-look at the timings of Kendal Lad and Kendal Brat's postings.
One is 8.48 a.m. the next is 8.51 a.m.!!!!!
Need I say more?
William T-look at the timings of Kendal Lad and Kendal Brat's postings. One is 8.48 a.m. the next is 8.51 a.m.!!!!! Need I say more? Whinfell
  • Score: 1

11:07am Wed 6 Aug 14

WilliamT says...

Whinfell wrote:
William T-look at the timings of Kendal Lad and Kendal Brat's postings.
One is 8.48 a.m. the next is 8.51 a.m.!!!!!
Need I say more?
We have a nut-job here, I'm afraid. There is one interesting point though- one of the characteristics of self-proclaimed ace-drivers is that they regularly recount tales (in my view, imaginary) that they believe prove the point that other drivers are nothing like as good as them. In this case it was the filter lane on the M6 Kendal exit westbound, where it was apparently only by ace driving that disaster in the form of running into the back of one of these incompetent drivers was averted. What a telling lack of insight! When you run into the back of someone, it's YOUR fault in almost all cases. Therefore, not running into the back of someone is normal, not an indicator of ace driving. Good driving involves always suspecting everyone else of being ***p and driving accordingly.
I think there's an impending change of alias!
[quote][p][bold]Whinfell[/bold] wrote: William T-look at the timings of Kendal Lad and Kendal Brat's postings. One is 8.48 a.m. the next is 8.51 a.m.!!!!! Need I say more?[/p][/quote]We have a nut-job here, I'm afraid. There is one interesting point though- one of the characteristics of self-proclaimed ace-drivers is that they regularly recount tales (in my view, imaginary) that they believe prove the point that other drivers are nothing like as good as them. In this case it was the filter lane on the M6 Kendal exit westbound, where it was apparently only by ace driving that disaster in the form of running into the back of one of these incompetent drivers was averted. What a telling lack of insight! When you run into the back of someone, it's YOUR fault in almost all cases. Therefore, not running into the back of someone is normal, not an indicator of ace driving. Good driving involves always suspecting everyone else of being ***p and driving accordingly. I think there's an impending change of alias! WilliamT
  • Score: -2

1:37pm Fri 8 Aug 14

WilliamT says...

Comprehensively 'outed' there, I think. However, I doubt if we'll have any trouble identifying Burnside Boy, or whatever it turns out to be, just from the nature of his comments.

PS there's another clue at the bottom of my last comment above!
Comprehensively 'outed' there, I think. However, I doubt if we'll have any trouble identifying Burnside Boy, or whatever it turns out to be, just from the nature of his comments. PS there's another clue at the bottom of my last comment above! WilliamT
  • Score: 0

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