'Just one fine issued for dog fouling in two years is ridiculous' - South Lakes councillor

11:00am Thursday 7th March 2013 in News Photograph of the Author By Hannah Upton

THE issue of just one fine for dog fouling by South Lakeland District Council enforcement officers in the last two years has been branded ‘a betrayal’.

Coun Ben Berry, the council’s shadow member for policy, performance and resources, said it was ‘ridiculous’ that only one irresponsible dog owner had been caught.

In a meeting of full council he called on cabinet members to bring in a private firm to crack down on offenders on a per fine profit share basis.

“We need to clean up the streets of South Lakeland and give a real deterrent to the irresponsible few who wreck it for the rest of us,” he said after the meeting.

“To defend a record of just one dog poo fine in two years is ridiculous; people don't believe the council have a hold on the situation.”

Coun Berry had proposed the trial as an amendment to the council’s budget for the coming year.

He called for a 12-month trial to outsource Dog Control Orders and litter enforcement, with a view to generating revenue via a profit sharing agreement between the council and the supplier.

“Part of the revenue generated would be offset against costs to provide greater information on good dog ownership to our visitors and residents,” he said.

Coun James Airey backed his proposal saying residents wanted action.

“This council is bad at enforcement and I think individuals are overstretched,” he said. “One fine for dog mess is appalling frankly. It is an issue that comes up time and time again. It is about time we ran a trial and asked a private company to look at this.”

A spokesman for SLDC said: “The role of enforcement and monitoring officers (EMOs) is to raise awareness and educate the public that dogs being allowed to foul and then not cleared away is irresponsible, unacceptable and a form of anti-social behaviour.

“This is in accordance with the Streetcare Enforcement Policy. The issuing of fixed penalty notices is a last resort.

“EMOs advise the public whilst on the numerous enforcement patrols they carry out throughout the district. Dog owners are fully aware that they must clean up after their pet and dispose of it in a waste bin. The EMOs also target particular areas of complaint.

“Their other duties include health and safety checks of the waste and street cleansing, grounds maintenance, recycling bring site, bulky waste and weed spraying contracts.

“They also provide community liaison and support on a range of matters including the migration of travellers through the district to Appleby Fair and other waste related and street care matters including fly-tipping and abandoned vehicles.”

Comments(28)

Lakeuk says...
12:24pm Thu 7 Mar 13

Is there going to be any point to the new proposed dog control orders if the current enforcement is not being used effectively.

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magical trevor says...
12:46pm Thu 7 Mar 13

Once again Ben Berry rails against the very people he's meant to be working with....ie Council officers. I'd like to ask him how those working at SLDC are meant to provide a front line service when there has been no funding for it? Why do you and your cohorts find it so difficult to work with your peers.....you make a mockery of democracy Mr Berry....you are like children in the playground. Perhaps if you exerted as much energy in helping the Lib Dem council in their efforts to provide a pooh free town, as you do in constantly pushing against their efforts, the South Lakes area might be the place you claim you wish it to be.

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ken daal says...
2:17pm Thu 7 Mar 13

I'll believe that changes are afoot when there is no more dog mess outside my house.

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elementary says...
2:46pm Thu 7 Mar 13

Sadly it would appear that unless enforcement officers are in plain clothes and prepared to lurk about, hidden, early in the morning and again in the evening until after dark, they are very unlikely to catch the selfish, lazy, inconsiderate and irresponsible dog owners who are quite aware of the law relating to dog poo but deliberately ignore it.
As a dog owner myself I would be delighted to see the book thrown at the people who allow their dogs to foul but are too arrogant to pick it up.
Sadly this will not happen unless the officers change tactics and patrol in the right areas at the right time - probably a very unpopular job if it means getting up early or going home late. Good luck with the funding for that.

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jazzactivist says...
3:12pm Thu 7 Mar 13

Dog fouling isn't just a problem on streets in built-up areas. Roadside verges and paths in the countryside are also blighted by it where people don't clean up after their dogs. The problem coincides with people being allowed to let their dogs off the lead, as then they can ignor what their dog is doing.

Instead of the Council spending money paying for a private company to take on the job of dog wardens, and then everyone shouting that it is vindictive and isn't cost effective, what about increasing the number of dog bins and larger signage, and recruiting a squad of volunteers who are already dog walkers?

Volunteers could just walk their dog/s as usual, carrying an indentification card, and if they see someone not cleaning up after their dog, in any environment, they could remind the person that they have to do so and provide a dog poo bag and a strongly-worded leaflet saying that the person will receive a £1000 fine if they fail to do so again. Repeat offenders could have their photograph, name and contact details taken and passed on to the Council or police for a fine to be issued.

I'm sure there are plenty of dog owners, like me, who do clean up after our dogs and are fed-up with seeing others not doing it and spoiling enjoyable walks for everyone.

Perhaps streets of houses could also get together to purchase a dog bin for their street, which would then be emptied by the Council on bin day. There desperately needs to be one at the top of Grange Fell Road where every day someone allows their dog to foul right in front of the tiny warning notice, and the verge and sides of the pathways through fields are full of dog excrement!

I'd certainly be happy to become a dog control volunteer.

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Kentish Man says...
3:35pm Thu 7 Mar 13

What you mean these dogs don't leave their calling cards on their calling cards. How disrespectful is that

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elementary says...
3:51pm Thu 7 Mar 13

Jazzactivist seems to have a rather naive view about why dog fouling is such a problem and it certainly is not because dogs are allowed off their leads. The owners are perfectly aware of the law and choose to ignore what their dog is doing. I walk my dog in both urban and rural areas at different times of the day and have only once witnessed a dog allowed to poo and then walked on. It was on a lead, within feet of a bin but too far away for me to ask that the offending pile was dealt with.
The problem is not lack of bins, leads, signs or wardens. It is the owners who have no intention of cleaning up after their dog, and excercise them when there are few people about to see. There is not a dog owner alive who does not know the law.
I am not sure about the law relating to photographing people, and imagine that ordinary members of the public challenging people who know they are in the wrong and breaking the law will find themselves with, at best, an unco-operative response, or , at worst, a verbally or even physically abusve response. People who care will not be the ones responsible for the mess.
Best left to the authorities.

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Goosed1 says...
6:35pm Thu 7 Mar 13

THE issue of just one fine for dog fouling by South Lakeland District Council enforcement officers in the last two years has been branded ‘a betrayal’.
If they had been working for any other business they would off been sacked!
I called it useless.
If they got out of their offices they might make it two.
Just go on to Colinfield open space it's covered in muck and dogs running around.
Though if you clean up after your dog you'll be lucky if you can put it in a bin as they never get emptied!

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sklanc says...
6:45pm Thu 7 Mar 13

for a real rich harvest of fouling, go up to hallgarth where the uneducated yobs there let their dogs run loose all day , defecating at will on doorsteps on gardens and in the road. if anyone points out this disgusting behaviour one is met with threats and verbal abuse. the newbiggin area is the worst. the dregs of society living in their own animals filth cannot understand why people complain.

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Whinfell says...
7:10pm Thu 7 Mar 13

I was walking past the top of Ghyllside School on the playing field side of the road last Sunday.
Never seen so much dogsh**t in my life.
You wonder who the animals are:the dogs or the owners.
Come on get your act together and clean up after your hound has fouled the pavement!

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Ben Berry says...
9:31pm Thu 7 Mar 13

magical trevor wrote:
Once again Ben Berry rails against the very people he's meant to be working with....ie Council officers. I'd like to ask him how those working at SLDC are meant to provide a front line service when there has been no funding for it? Why do you and your cohorts find it so difficult to work with your peers.....you make a mockery of democracy Mr Berry....you are like children in the playground. Perhaps if you exerted as much energy in helping the Lib Dem council in their efforts to provide a pooh free town, as you do in constantly pushing against their efforts, the South Lakes area might be the place you claim you wish it to be.
The tender was fully costed in my admendments and the scheme would be self funding as set out in the article.

:-)

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Kendmoor says...
10:05pm Thu 7 Mar 13

Do you know what my favourite one is...It's when you see a poopbag on the side of a path or pavement.

I'd just love to know the thought process that makes a person do that.

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Kendmoor says...
10:07pm Thu 7 Mar 13

"Ahh, fido's done his buisness, now to be a good citizen...Yep, there we go, scooped up into the bag...Hmm, now what? Ahh yes - I'll just dump this bag on the side of the path"

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Lakeuk says...
11:55pm Thu 7 Mar 13

Not just an urban problem, get out into the country side and you'll see sites like what Lowther Castle posted this week on their facebook page:-

https://www.facebook
.com/photo.php?fbid=
615063391842417

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jazzactivist says...
1:07pm Fri 8 Mar 13

I'm not naive, elementary, but I think that although every single person knows the law with regard to dog fouling it isn't only careless 'yobs' who don't clean up after their dogs. There seems to be a general blinkeredness that cuts across social class and education when it comes to cleaning up after your own dog.

I've been looked at very oddly by other dog walkers many times when I clean up after my dog on grass verges, in fields, or on the beach. I think there is still a general opinion that you don't have to do it in rural areas as the weather or tide will take care of it, but it doesn't and the problem just multiplies - literally.

And the confusion about what to do with the bag of dog poo afterwards is definitely bizarre. Obviously, the same as with any other litter, you either put it in your pocket or carry another type of bag to put your poo bag in and, if there is no bin immediately nearby, you take the dog poo to the next bin, or take it home and put in your own wheelie bin.

But why hide it? I think the main problem is still that people feel squeamish about cleaning up and carrying poo, and that attitude needs to be broken down and transformed into a behaviour that is socially acceptable and honourable.The more dog walkers who are seen jauntily carrying a bag of poo to show that we are responsible owners the more acceptable it will become, and that will encourage others to do it too.

SLDC needs to be much more proactive about this. Instead of spending money on contracting a company to provide wardens, what about a series of obvious kiosks in popular dog walking areas promoting and selling scoopers, bags, leads etc. and handing out information on the law. These could also be the hubs for local volunteer dog wardens who hand out bags and leaflets when walking their own dogs and report anyone who is a repeat offender or unwilling. Certainly, bigger notices and more bins need to be available - at the junction of every road in both urban and rural areas. If the Council makes it that there is absolutely no excuse for not cleaning up after your dog, the real offenders can be easily caught.

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Whinfell says...
6:28pm Fri 8 Mar 13

To be fair the enforcement officer I dealt with was very efficient.
Sick and tired of irresponsible dog owners not clearing up I saw a local woman leeave her dog's excrement on a pathway.
Knowing where she lived I emailed them.
They warned her and now she carries a plastic bag with her to collect the excrement.

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furthersouth says...
9:44pm Fri 8 Mar 13

My favourite gripe, at last. We regularly visit Grizdale forest along with other local spots for walks etc. How often do you see a black sh:t bag hanging off a tree or on a wall somewhere. Infuriates me does that. I have often admonished dog owners for not cleaning up after themselves. I've threatened folk with rubbing their noses in it. Even followed someone home once and threw it in their garden. just give it them back, simples. It isn't the dogs fault, it's the irresponsible owners. Have a wander around Ambleside at holiday times and play "dodge the dumps" in the streets. Rothay Park is the same, turds everywhere. Something needs to be done as it has reached epidemic proportions in the South Lakes. Remember the Jim Carrey film where he poo's on his neighbours lawn, I'll do that one day and send the pic in to the Wezzy. Tee hee

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kendal1991 says...
12:16pm Sat 9 Mar 13

I have to think that Ben Berry is the 'ridiculous' one here!

Whilst dog fouling is not nice, SLDC are right that fining should be a last resort. He has simply pulled on figures to make a silly story without realising that often a lot of the work that these EMOs will do- most importantly education- cannot be recorded in the same way.

I also find it laughable that this man says in a recent blog that he 'grew up in the real world'. I'm sorry but you cannot fool anyone with that line- from a well-off Hotel-chain family you can hardly relate to the majority of the South Lakes.

A young voice on the council is great, but lose the ego and work with those more experienced than you. They may listen if you weren't constantly on Twitter undermining them.

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jazzactivist says...
6:17pm Sun 10 Mar 13

This article is about dog fouling, and the Council's lack of commitment so far in tackling what has become a serious issue in the South lakes. Can I suggest that the people commenting who are avoiding the issue and using this forum to make personal attacks on Ben Berry himself may well be people who don't clean up after their dogs?

How hard can it be for both the Council and dog owners to 'do the right thing'?

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Kendmoor says...
6:38pm Sun 10 Mar 13

willing to bet some of the benberry commenters are probably something to do with the council too
that last comment
"They may listen if you weren't constantly on Twitter undermining them"
amongst the other previous comments..
sniffs of people who pay special attention to him in a work related manner :P

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life cycle too says...
11:36pm Sun 10 Mar 13

kendal1991 wrote:
I have to think that Ben Berry is the 'ridiculous' one here!

Whilst dog fouling is not nice, SLDC are right that fining should be a last resort. He has simply pulled on figures to make a silly story without realising that often a lot of the work that these EMOs will do- most importantly education- cannot be recorded in the same way.

I also find it laughable that this man says in a recent blog that he 'grew up in the real world'. I'm sorry but you cannot fool anyone with that line- from a well-off Hotel-chain family you can hardly relate to the majority of the South Lakes.

A young voice on the council is great, but lose the ego and work with those more experienced than you. They may listen if you weren't constantly on Twitter undermining them.
If dog fouling were the only problem here, you might find a few who were seduced by your personal attack on Ben Berry, but SLDC's Liberal majority have ruled over one disaster after another, and attacking anyone who exposes any of their many faults seems to be your last resort to divert attention from their appalling record of failures.

Perhaps you could explain how being of "a well off hotel chain family" prevents somebody from having a grounded upbringing, or makes them any less able than say Peter Thornton?

If education on dog fouling were working, then the problem would be reducing - but it appears to continue unabated.
Stricter enforcement is the way forward, and the sooner the offending owners are hit hard in the pocket, the better our streets and parks will be.

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elementary says...
11:54am Wed 13 Mar 13

I could not agree more with life cycle, and now there have been specific areas that are particulary affected by loose dogs and general fouling perhaps the wardens can start there. Issueing fines and impounding dogs running loose without their owners (with a fine to get them back) might concentrate the minds of the minority who don't care about others.

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elementary says...
11:59am Wed 13 Mar 13

Also, as an after thought, is there anyone at all who can justify, with reason or logic, allowing their dog to roam, or their dog to poo where ever it wants, and not clean up after it?
If so PLEASE let the rest of us know and then perhaps we might not hate you so much.

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Whinfell says...
1:47pm Wed 13 Mar 13

You are not likely to recieve a reply.
The sort of people who let this happen won't be able to read your question,never mind write a coherent answer.

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snuggle-bunny says...
10:15pm Wed 13 Mar 13

you could allways spray the dog dirt pink to shame the dog owner into clearing it up

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snuggle-bunny says...
11:04pm Wed 13 Mar 13

sklanc wrote:
for a real rich harvest of fouling, go up to hallgarth where the uneducated yobs there let their dogs run loose all day , defecating at will on doorsteps on gardens and in the road. if anyone points out this disgusting behaviour one is met with threats and verbal abuse. the newbiggin area is the worst. the dregs of society living in their own animals filth cannot understand why people complain.
what makes you think it's the dogs

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snuggle-bunny says...
11:06pm Wed 13 Mar 13

Ben Berry wrote:
magical trevor wrote:
Once again Ben Berry rails against the very people he's meant to be working with....ie Council officers. I'd like to ask him how those working at SLDC are meant to provide a front line service when there has been no funding for it? Why do you and your cohorts find it so difficult to work with your peers.....you make a mockery of democracy Mr Berry....you are like children in the playground. Perhaps if you exerted as much energy in helping the Lib Dem council in their efforts to provide a pooh free town, as you do in constantly pushing against their efforts, the South Lakes area might be the place you claim you wish it to be.
The tender was fully costed in my admendments and the scheme would be self funding as set out in the article.

:-)
I believe in father christmas, flying saucers and fairies at the bottom of the garden

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elementary says...
8:39am Thu 14 Mar 13

Quite apart from the fact that Ben Berry is 100% correct to be concerned about the lack of enforcement, why is no one annoyed with James Airey who apparantly agreed with him, they are both right, and logic dictates that all the above "posters" on this site are as concerned about dog mess as he is. He has taken the trouble to come up with a possible solution to the problem and it would be more helpful if he was given support, rather than castigated for his effort and his background (which is hardly his fault - it can only be jealousy, not an attractive trait)
To re-iterate:
Dog poo is an enormous problem
No one likes it
The council are ineffective at dealing with enforcement
Get someone in who is
Problem sorted

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