Kendal residents fear cul-de-sac could turn into a 'rat run'

Scott Robinson with his petition and residents of Cedar Grove

Scott Robinson with his petition and residents of Cedar Grove

First published in News
Last updated
The Westmorland Gazette: Photograph of the Author by , Reporter

CUL-de-sac residents have taken action against plans which could see their street turned into an access road for a 189-home estate.

Dozens of people who live on Cedar Grove, Kendal, have signed a petition against proposals that they fear could turn their road into a ‘rat run’ between the town centre and a possible development on nearby Stainbank Green.

Scott Robinson lives there with his wife and two children.

“In basic terms our main issue is the use of the quiet cul-de-sac as a vehicle access point,” he said.

“What we fear is that if the road is used as secondary access it will become the main route for anybody travelling south to Asda or the hospital or the bypass, because it will be a shortcut.

“At the moment the road is a cul-de-sac so it’s fairly quiet and that’s why we moved here – we thought it would be safe, with the children. But now we’re worried it could become really busy if it’s opened up.”

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The Stainbank Green land – currently fields - was named in South Lakeland District Council’s ‘Local Plan’ which allocated areas potentially suitable for development.

The land is adjacent to the Underwood housing estate, of which Cedar Grove is part.

Mr Robinson has helped co-ordinate a campaign to persuade the council to create access points elsewhere, and has collected around 70 signatures.

“If the road is made into an access route it won’t just be us that suffer, but residents on Vicarage Drive, as that’s where drivers will cut down from here,” the 45-year-old continued.

“There’s already bad traffic down there and there’s a primary school and the college there.

“It just seems to be a really bad idea.”

A spokesman for South Lakeland District Council said officers were currently considering all matters which arose from a consultation held last month.

“As part of this the council is considering the issue of how the Stainbank Green site should be accessed,” said the spokesman.

“The council’s current evidence base stresses the primary highway access should be off Brigsteer Road, but also references the possibility of secondary access into the site from Cedar Grove.

“Details on how the site will be accessed will be determined more fully through a full transport assessment when planning applications are submitted.’’

Comments (12)

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8:08pm Wed 16 Apr 14

JBean2 says...

Did the residents of Cedar Grove give a moments thought to the impact of their added traffic down Vicarage Road when Cedar Grove was developed?
Did the residents of Cedar Grove give a moments thought to the impact of their added traffic down Vicarage Road when Cedar Grove was developed? JBean2
  • Score: -3

10:22pm Wed 16 Apr 14

whitevanman2 says...

Cedar Grove and Maple Drive were designed that way for any future development, Briery Meadows and The Oaks are the same.
Cedar Grove and Maple Drive were designed that way for any future development, Briery Meadows and The Oaks are the same. whitevanman2
  • Score: 1

11:04am Thu 17 Apr 14

greenbell says...

I feel for the residents of Cedar Grove as the Council does not give any thought to where the traffic will go whether it is a new housing estate or pedestrianised streets. They are making more and more of a mess of this town. However, I wonder how many of these protesting residents now "rat run" along Gillinggate, Beast Banks or Queens Road?
I feel for the residents of Cedar Grove as the Council does not give any thought to where the traffic will go whether it is a new housing estate or pedestrianised streets. They are making more and more of a mess of this town. However, I wonder how many of these protesting residents now "rat run" along Gillinggate, Beast Banks or Queens Road? greenbell
  • Score: -5

11:58am Thu 17 Apr 14

considerate says...

JBean2 wrote:
Did the residents of Cedar Grove give a moments thought to the impact of their added traffic down Vicarage Road when Cedar Grove was developed?
Hi JBean2
Reasonable point for you to make...Just to put a scale on this though, Cedar Grove is a small cul-de-sac of 28 homes so it didnt create a huge amount of incremental traffic for Vicarage Drive in the same way that 189 new homes will do to Cedar Grove AND to Vicarage Drive. As Scott says (in the article), the residents of Cedar Grove are concerned about the impact this extra traffic will have to Vicarage Drive too and have raised this concern to SLDC.
[quote][p][bold]JBean2[/bold] wrote: Did the residents of Cedar Grove give a moments thought to the impact of their added traffic down Vicarage Road when Cedar Grove was developed?[/p][/quote]Hi JBean2 Reasonable point for you to make...Just to put a scale on this though, Cedar Grove is a small cul-de-sac of 28 homes so it didnt create a huge amount of incremental traffic for Vicarage Drive in the same way that 189 new homes will do to Cedar Grove AND to Vicarage Drive. As Scott says (in the article), the residents of Cedar Grove are concerned about the impact this extra traffic will have to Vicarage Drive too and have raised this concern to SLDC. considerate
  • Score: 9

12:21pm Thu 17 Apr 14

considerate says...

whitevanman2 wrote:
Cedar Grove and Maple Drive were designed that way for any future development, Briery Meadows and The Oaks are the same.
Hi whitevanman2
Hmm, I can imagine that the original developers ( 20 years ago) hoped to extend the site using these narrow cul-de-sacs for vehicle access but find it hard to believe that the planners / highways agency would have approved that from a safety aspect because they are just too narrow with restricted visibility and Cedar Grove is steep too. If the intent had really been open them up at a future point in time, they should have been designed differently with safety in mind.
[quote][p][bold]whitevanman2[/bold] wrote: Cedar Grove and Maple Drive were designed that way for any future development, Briery Meadows and The Oaks are the same.[/p][/quote]Hi whitevanman2 Hmm, I can imagine that the original developers ( 20 years ago) hoped to extend the site using these narrow cul-de-sacs for vehicle access but find it hard to believe that the planners / highways agency would have approved that from a safety aspect because they are just too narrow with restricted visibility and Cedar Grove is steep too. If the intent had really been open them up at a future point in time, they should have been designed differently with safety in mind. considerate
  • Score: 12

6:48pm Thu 17 Apr 14

brokenbanjo says...

I call NIMBYs.
I call NIMBYs. brokenbanjo
  • Score: -1

7:52pm Thu 17 Apr 14

JBean2 says...

considerate wrote:
JBean2 wrote:
Did the residents of Cedar Grove give a moments thought to the impact of their added traffic down Vicarage Road when Cedar Grove was developed?
Hi JBean2
Reasonable point for you to make...Just to put a scale on this though, Cedar Grove is a small cul-de-sac of 28 homes so it didnt create a huge amount of incremental traffic for Vicarage Drive in the same way that 189 new homes will do to Cedar Grove AND to Vicarage Drive. As Scott says (in the article), the residents of Cedar Grove are concerned about the impact this extra traffic will have to Vicarage Drive too and have raised this concern to SLDC.
You can try to make it sound like the residents of Cedar Grove are concerned about others i.e. the residents of Vicarage Drive, but it is obvious that they are complaining because they don't like the thought of other people driving up their road. In spite of the fact that they have contributed to the danger to children attending Vicarage Park School by using Vicarage Park as a rat run themselves. Also, if you count the houses on Cedar Grove, Maple Drive and Aldercroft, they did make a big impact when they were built.
The primary access is going to be from Brigsteer Road. If there is a secondary access through Cedar Grove are the residents of Cedar Grove going to refuse to ever drive through that way, if say they want to head out to the scar or Brigsteer and beyond? I doubt it. Roads are not dangerous because they are narrow, it is the lack of care shown by drivers that is dangerous. Also roads are narrowed by people parking cars on the road instead of in their driveways.
[quote][p][bold]considerate[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JBean2[/bold] wrote: Did the residents of Cedar Grove give a moments thought to the impact of their added traffic down Vicarage Road when Cedar Grove was developed?[/p][/quote]Hi JBean2 Reasonable point for you to make...Just to put a scale on this though, Cedar Grove is a small cul-de-sac of 28 homes so it didnt create a huge amount of incremental traffic for Vicarage Drive in the same way that 189 new homes will do to Cedar Grove AND to Vicarage Drive. As Scott says (in the article), the residents of Cedar Grove are concerned about the impact this extra traffic will have to Vicarage Drive too and have raised this concern to SLDC.[/p][/quote]You can try to make it sound like the residents of Cedar Grove are concerned about others i.e. the residents of Vicarage Drive, but it is obvious that they are complaining because they don't like the thought of other people driving up their road. In spite of the fact that they have contributed to the danger to children attending Vicarage Park School by using Vicarage Park as a rat run themselves. Also, if you count the houses on Cedar Grove, Maple Drive and Aldercroft, they did make a big impact when they were built. The primary access is going to be from Brigsteer Road. If there is a secondary access through Cedar Grove are the residents of Cedar Grove going to refuse to ever drive through that way, if say they want to head out to the scar or Brigsteer and beyond? I doubt it. Roads are not dangerous because they are narrow, it is the lack of care shown by drivers that is dangerous. Also roads are narrowed by people parking cars on the road instead of in their driveways. JBean2
  • Score: -3

9:27pm Thu 17 Apr 14

wezzyk says...

Parking on the pavemenst is a traffic calming method! I was told this by local councillors when I complained about not being able to access my drive safely and without stopping traffic because of inconsiderate drivers parking too close to gateposts.

Parking - Not just residents parking on roads, but day workers, due to lack of parking for town workers coming in each day - loads look for any non yellow lined areas close to town centre and walk in to avoid paying.
Parking on the pavemenst is a traffic calming method! I was told this by local councillors when I complained about not being able to access my drive safely and without stopping traffic because of inconsiderate drivers parking too close to gateposts. Parking - Not just residents parking on roads, but day workers, due to lack of parking for town workers coming in each day - loads look for any non yellow lined areas close to town centre and walk in to avoid paying. wezzyk
  • Score: 1

10:17pm Thu 17 Apr 14

considerate says...

JBean2 wrote:
considerate wrote:
JBean2 wrote:
Did the residents of Cedar Grove give a moments thought to the impact of their added traffic down Vicarage Road when Cedar Grove was developed?
Hi JBean2
Reasonable point for you to make...Just to put a scale on this though, Cedar Grove is a small cul-de-sac of 28 homes so it didnt create a huge amount of incremental traffic for Vicarage Drive in the same way that 189 new homes will do to Cedar Grove AND to Vicarage Drive. As Scott says (in the article), the residents of Cedar Grove are concerned about the impact this extra traffic will have to Vicarage Drive too and have raised this concern to SLDC.
You can try to make it sound like the residents of Cedar Grove are concerned about others i.e. the residents of Vicarage Drive, but it is obvious that they are complaining because they don't like the thought of other people driving up their road. In spite of the fact that they have contributed to the danger to children attending Vicarage Park School by using Vicarage Park as a rat run themselves. Also, if you count the houses on Cedar Grove, Maple Drive and Aldercroft, they did make a big impact when they were built.
The primary access is going to be from Brigsteer Road. If there is a secondary access through Cedar Grove are the residents of Cedar Grove going to refuse to ever drive through that way, if say they want to head out to the scar or Brigsteer and beyond? I doubt it. Roads are not dangerous because they are narrow, it is the lack of care shown by drivers that is dangerous. Also roads are narrowed by people parking cars on the road instead of in their driveways.
Hi Jbean2,
The residents of Cedar Grove and other local roads ARE concerned about more traffic coming through the area and the impact that it would have to ALL residents of the estate. Why? Because their own children attend Vicarage Park School and/or the college and they do need to use Vicarage Drive as a connecting road. The more traffic comes through, the higher risk for all pedestrians and road users. I’m not debating whether roads that exist today should have been built 20 years ago though because that won’t fix the problem we have now. The focus should be on how to stop things getting worse for ALL of the estate now. From what you have written, I believe we both agree on this point.
Naturally the residents of Cedar Grove don’t want the cul-de-sac to be opened. Today they have a safe road which is a good thing. Opening it will cause a new safety issue for Cedar Grove, Aldercroft and the residents to the ‘to be’ site. It will not help Vicarage Drive’s traffic problem.
Let's hope there is a solution that will help everyone.
[quote][p][bold]JBean2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]considerate[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JBean2[/bold] wrote: Did the residents of Cedar Grove give a moments thought to the impact of their added traffic down Vicarage Road when Cedar Grove was developed?[/p][/quote]Hi JBean2 Reasonable point for you to make...Just to put a scale on this though, Cedar Grove is a small cul-de-sac of 28 homes so it didnt create a huge amount of incremental traffic for Vicarage Drive in the same way that 189 new homes will do to Cedar Grove AND to Vicarage Drive. As Scott says (in the article), the residents of Cedar Grove are concerned about the impact this extra traffic will have to Vicarage Drive too and have raised this concern to SLDC.[/p][/quote]You can try to make it sound like the residents of Cedar Grove are concerned about others i.e. the residents of Vicarage Drive, but it is obvious that they are complaining because they don't like the thought of other people driving up their road. In spite of the fact that they have contributed to the danger to children attending Vicarage Park School by using Vicarage Park as a rat run themselves. Also, if you count the houses on Cedar Grove, Maple Drive and Aldercroft, they did make a big impact when they were built. The primary access is going to be from Brigsteer Road. If there is a secondary access through Cedar Grove are the residents of Cedar Grove going to refuse to ever drive through that way, if say they want to head out to the scar or Brigsteer and beyond? I doubt it. Roads are not dangerous because they are narrow, it is the lack of care shown by drivers that is dangerous. Also roads are narrowed by people parking cars on the road instead of in their driveways.[/p][/quote]Hi Jbean2, The residents of Cedar Grove and other local roads ARE concerned about more traffic coming through the area and the impact that it would have to ALL residents of the estate. Why? Because their own children attend Vicarage Park School and/or the college and they do need to use Vicarage Drive as a connecting road. The more traffic comes through, the higher risk for all pedestrians and road users. I’m not debating whether roads that exist today should have been built 20 years ago though because that won’t fix the problem we have now. The focus should be on how to stop things getting worse for ALL of the estate now. From what you have written, I believe we both agree on this point. Naturally the residents of Cedar Grove don’t want the cul-de-sac to be opened. Today they have a safe road which is a good thing. Opening it will cause a new safety issue for Cedar Grove, Aldercroft and the residents to the ‘to be’ site. It will not help Vicarage Drive’s traffic problem. Let's hope there is a solution that will help everyone. considerate
  • Score: 7

9:15am Fri 18 Apr 14

Lakeuk says...

The cul-de-sac has been designed to support expansion, whether or not it was to be opened up there would still be increased traffic on Vicarage Drive, is this a bad thing? Some may say it's a rat run but the road from Brigsteer Rd to the Collage has been planned that way to keep additional traffic from adding to the traffic problem in the town centre. When large estates are planned the council/emergency services usually require to two ways in, in case one way becomes blocked. A possible idea could be to open up the cul-de-sac road to the new development but have a barrier against normal traffic that emergency services could use if the main entry was block - chances are the secondary entrance would never get used at all except to pedestrians and cyclists.

There are other streets in Kendal in a similar position if development was to take place, this idea would also be suitable.
The cul-de-sac has been designed to support expansion, whether or not it was to be opened up there would still be increased traffic on Vicarage Drive, is this a bad thing? Some may say it's a rat run but the road from Brigsteer Rd to the Collage has been planned that way to keep additional traffic from adding to the traffic problem in the town centre. When large estates are planned the council/emergency services usually require to two ways in, in case one way becomes blocked. A possible idea could be to open up the cul-de-sac road to the new development but have a barrier against normal traffic that emergency services could use if the main entry was block - chances are the secondary entrance would never get used at all except to pedestrians and cyclists. There are other streets in Kendal in a similar position if development was to take place, this idea would also be suitable. Lakeuk
  • Score: 5

4:55pm Fri 18 Apr 14

greenbell says...

Perhaps everyone should consider getting out of their tin boxes and either walk or cycle. That way we can all have a bit of peace and quiet!
Perhaps everyone should consider getting out of their tin boxes and either walk or cycle. That way we can all have a bit of peace and quiet! greenbell
  • Score: 4

8:46pm Fri 18 Apr 14

JBean2 says...

Lakeuk wrote:
The cul-de-sac has been designed to support expansion, whether or not it was to be opened up there would still be increased traffic on Vicarage Drive, is this a bad thing? Some may say it's a rat run but the road from Brigsteer Rd to the Collage has been planned that way to keep additional traffic from adding to the traffic problem in the town centre. When large estates are planned the council/emergency services usually require to two ways in, in case one way becomes blocked. A possible idea could be to open up the cul-de-sac road to the new development but have a barrier against normal traffic that emergency services could use if the main entry was block - chances are the secondary entrance would never get used at all except to pedestrians and cyclists.

There are other streets in Kendal in a similar position if development was to take place, this idea would also be suitable.
Lakeuk, you make some very good points. It may well be that there will just be an emergency access and pedestrian/cyclist entrance on to Cedar Grove. I hope the residents would be happy with this.
As you say though, there would still be more traffic down Vicarage Drive. It would be good if people walked more and drove with care and consideration. Perhaps we should all be more tolerant of others. Things always change and we have to adapt. The roads are built for people to drive on and if they are crowded all of us who drive are to blame and have to accept it. No road is "safe" for children to play on. Roads are for vehicles and cyclists. Hopefully the new development will include a play area and some green space.

If people want to live in a cul-de-sac for ever, they need to choose one where there is no chance of it ever becoming a through road. Perhaps there will be one in the new development? The residents of Cedar Grove could move there?
I hope the new houses get built quickly. I hope more people are able to afford a new home, and all the people involved in building the development are able to earn a living doing so. I also hope that everyone lucky enough to have their own home can spare a thought for those looking for affordable housing.
[quote][p][bold]Lakeuk[/bold] wrote: The cul-de-sac has been designed to support expansion, whether or not it was to be opened up there would still be increased traffic on Vicarage Drive, is this a bad thing? Some may say it's a rat run but the road from Brigsteer Rd to the Collage has been planned that way to keep additional traffic from adding to the traffic problem in the town centre. When large estates are planned the council/emergency services usually require to two ways in, in case one way becomes blocked. A possible idea could be to open up the cul-de-sac road to the new development but have a barrier against normal traffic that emergency services could use if the main entry was block - chances are the secondary entrance would never get used at all except to pedestrians and cyclists. There are other streets in Kendal in a similar position if development was to take place, this idea would also be suitable.[/p][/quote]Lakeuk, you make some very good points. It may well be that there will just be an emergency access and pedestrian/cyclist entrance on to Cedar Grove. I hope the residents would be happy with this. As you say though, there would still be more traffic down Vicarage Drive. It would be good if people walked more and drove with care and consideration. Perhaps we should all be more tolerant of others. Things always change and we have to adapt. The roads are built for people to drive on and if they are crowded all of us who drive are to blame and have to accept it. No road is "safe" for children to play on. Roads are for vehicles and cyclists. Hopefully the new development will include a play area and some green space. If people want to live in a cul-de-sac for ever, they need to choose one where there is no chance of it ever becoming a through road. Perhaps there will be one in the new development? The residents of Cedar Grove could move there? I hope the new houses get built quickly. I hope more people are able to afford a new home, and all the people involved in building the development are able to earn a living doing so. I also hope that everyone lucky enough to have their own home can spare a thought for those looking for affordable housing. JBean2
  • Score: 6

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