More join protest over planned cull of Canada Geese at Windermere (From The Westmorland Gazette)
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More join protest over planned cull of Canada Geese at Windermere
1:28pm Thursday 9th February 2012 in News
PLANS to cull Canada geese on Windermere are being met with mounting opposition.
The spring cull proposed by the Lake District National Park Authority would eliminate 200 of the non-native birds after complaints were made by landowners about the geese eating crops and concerns their droppings affect water quality.
South Lakeland conservationist Clive Hartley described the plan as ‘a total massacre’ and this week received backing from the Canada Goose Conservation Society (CGCS).
Another opponent has launched a petition, which has attracted about 150 signatures.
In a statement, the CGCS said it ‘deplored’ the LDNPA’s ‘cruel’ proposal and the 1,000 birds which live on the lake was a ‘tiny number’ compared to its size.
“It is nonsense to suggest that shooting the geese in the spring, when they are nesting, is likely to make it easier to kill both birds in a pair at the same time,” said a spokesman.
“Of course, the flock will all try to fly away as soon as they realise what is happening. Shooting is never humane; some birds will be wounded. The shooting of adult birds, as well as being cruel, is not an effective means of reducing numbers of Canada geese since more birds will always fly in to the territory.”
Lake District visitor Neil Ryding contacted the Gazette to say he was ‘horrified’ at the cull and has started a petition calling on the LDNPA to re-think its plans.
“These are beautiful creatures who do no harm to anyone,” said Mr Ryding. “I love coming to the Lake District because of the wildlife, including the geese, but I will not be visiting again if this cull goes ahead.”
His petition can be found at www.change.org/petitions/stop-the-cull-of-geese-in-windermere-this-spring-please-do-not-allow-the-mass-geese-slaughter-in-windermere Meanwhile, dozens of people voiced their anger on The Westmorland Gazette website, some criticising the RSPB for not objecting to the cull.
HolisticH wrote: “I have been in contact with the RSPB to air my concerns and I urge others who are against the cull to contact them.”
And Henry Alex said he was disgusted and would cancel his RSPB membership, writing: “I am a member as I thought that they protect birds. The birds are wonderful living creatures.”
LDNPA ranger Steve Tatlock said killing the geese would improve water quality on Windermere, help with land management, address farming concerns and protect tourist activities.
He understood the issue was emotive and that any cull would be to high standards.
An RSPB spokesperson said: “We wouldn’t object to a bird culling if there was a good reason for it such as a health and safety issue.”
He added that the charity’s North West conservation officer would be looking into the reasons behind the planned cull before stating whether the RSPB was for or against it.
Comments(26)
save windermere geese
says...
4:51pm Thu 9 Feb 12
MarionA
says...
5:48pm Thu 9 Feb 12
http://www.lakedistr
ict.gov.uk/caringfor
/policies/canadagees
e
I read about the ‘managed cull’ where it was described nesting geese would be shot ‘to reduce their stress’. This appears totally contradictory to information given in one of the links on that site where it says:
TIN009 - The management of problems caused by Canada geese: a guide to best practice (TIN009) says…….. "Thus, a cull of breeding birds MAY SIMPLY CREAT VACAN TERRORITIES for other birds to move into and repeat culls may be necessary for a number of years before the problem is finally brought under control.".
..... I think the fact nesting geese will be targetted exposes an extermination agenda…and they want to kill as many geese as possible. By killing nesting geese they ensure they will be replaced by nesting geese year after year. In fact another link on that page indicates a 5 year plan and if 200 geese are killed for 5 years that pretty well exterminates the geese, doesn’t it?
The numbers given are also varying widely from 1200 to 1000 and one article says there are ‘now 700’ while the ornithologist who has counted regularly says 600.
MarionA
says...
5:51pm Thu 9 Feb 12
**Canada geese, despite the claims, have not really been shown on their own to damage the environment or pollute water…they are products of their environment. I think it is likely this is another case where the geese are being made ‘scapegeese’.
*“Studies have found that although waterfowl fecal matter can contribute inorganic nitrogen and phosphorus into fresh water lakes, the feces appeared to have a minimal impact (Pettigrew, Hahn 1998). Other researchers in salt water estuaries have argued that “Canada geese are not a significant source of new nitrogen because THEY SIMPLY RECYCLE NITROGEN ALREADY IN THE AREA. So their impact on estuary eutrophication is minimal at best”
http://icwdm.org/han
dbook/birds/CanadaGe
ese/HumanHealthWater
.aspx
MarionA
says...
6:01pm Thu 9 Feb 12
England's most famous lakes are to be checked for pollution by the Environment Agency amid fears famous spots like Lake Windermere and Grassmere are being threatened by sewage, foreign weeds and climate change........Howeve
r Lake Windermere is being polluted by pesticides and fertilisers from farming, New Zealand Pigmyweed imported in 1911 is choking other wildlife and the lake is threatened with drought and flooding due to climate change."
.....mmm I don't see Canada geese mentioned as a threat to Windermere Lake.....scapegeese anyone?
http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/earth/earthne
ws/5345899/Lake-Wind
ermere-is-polluted-s
ay-environment-watch
dogs.html
henryalex
says...
11:23am Sat 11 Feb 12
lakesdream
says...
11:31am Sat 11 Feb 12
lakesailor
says...
11:33am Sat 11 Feb 12
Bit contradictory there Marion
"By killing nesting geese they ensure they will be replaced by nesting geese year after year. ----if 200 geese are killed for 5 years that pretty well exterminates the geese, doesn’t it?."
ermmm....not if they are "replaced by nesting geese year after year."
The Freshwater Biological Association have been doing just that on Windermere for 80 years ( http://www.fba.org.u
k/ )
A fuss about nothing. A cull of 200 birds from 1000 is only 20%.
Mind you, if given a choice I'd rather it were the gulls being culled. At least some ducklings would survive their early days.
lakesdream
says...
12:00pm Sat 11 Feb 12
TwoHat
says...
4:38pm Sat 11 Feb 12
lakesdream wrote:Only a vociferous minority of the public. Most, like me, couldn't give a ****. I just get a bit annoyed by the emotive language and over-reaction of the goosers. I doubt if most of the objectors would have as much to say if the geese weren't "magnificent creatures" or were ugly, or were simply being farmed for food like other breeds of goose.
lakesailor you show no empathy what so ever for the suffering that wil be caused to these magnificent creatures. Canada Geese are sentient creatures who mate for life, will defend their young to the death. Shooting them and breaking up family groups if they don't shoot the whole family is extremely disressing for the remaining members. There is no evidence that the Windermere Geese have reached unsustainable numbers. If they ever do all over the world and in the UK sucessful programmes of humane reduction have taken place, for example in Strtaford upon Avon. The LDNP and RSPB know this so why are they proposing a cull? I think because a few influential land owners have pressurised them. The LDNPA is a public body and is accountable to the public. The public are making their feelings known.
B.Pedreaper
says...
5:02pm Sat 11 Feb 12
lakesdream
says...
5:56pm Sat 11 Feb 12
PieWoman
says...
8:10pm Sat 11 Feb 12
TwoHat wrote:Well said TwoHat! Most of the contributors to this 'debate' are sentimentalists. I get the impression they would object to any form of predation, natural or otherwise. Its time for the silent majority to become more vocal.
lakesdream wrote:Only a vociferous minority of the public. Most, like me, couldn't give a ****. I just get a bit annoyed by the emotive language and over-reaction of the goosers. I doubt if most of the objectors would have as much to say if the geese weren't "magnificent creatures" or were ugly, or were simply being farmed for food like other breeds of goose.
lakesailor you show no empathy what so ever for the suffering that wil be caused to these magnificent creatures. Canada Geese are sentient creatures who mate for life, will defend their young to the death. Shooting them and breaking up family groups if they don't shoot the whole family is extremely disressing for the remaining members. There is no evidence that the Windermere Geese have reached unsustainable numbers. If they ever do all over the world and in the UK sucessful programmes of humane reduction have taken place, for example in Strtaford upon Avon. The LDNP and RSPB know this so why are they proposing a cull? I think because a few influential land owners have pressurised them. The LDNPA is a public body and is accountable to the public. The public are making their feelings known.
Pie Woman
MarionA
says...
9:13pm Sat 11 Feb 12
ermmm....not if they are "replaced by nesting geese year after year."......if you looked at the links I provided their own information states culling nesting pairs will result in a vacancy which will be filled with new nesting pairs next year.
TIN009 - The management of problems caused by Canada geese: a guide to best practice (TIN009) says…….. "Thus, a cull of breeding birds MAY SIMPLY CREAT VACAN TERRORITIES for other birds to move into and repeat culls may be necessary for a number of years before the problem is finally brought under control.".
It's interesting that their webpage says there are 1200 geese but other articles say 1000 or 'now 700'. Well the numbers they are tossing around alone takes care of 200 geese...no need for a cull of even 200.
MarionA
says...
9:19pm Sat 11 Feb 12
It's odd you get 'annoyed' by the 'over reaction' of the pro goosers but not the blatant propaganda being bandied about by the anti goosers to justify killing innocent birds. How does that work? It seems you just don't want facts to get in the way of your blissfully peaceful existence.
henryalex
says...
10:27pm Sat 11 Feb 12
Gini
says...
3:32pm Mon 13 Feb 12
B.Pedreaper
says...
4:03pm Mon 13 Feb 12
lakesailor
says...
9:01am Tue 14 Feb 12
"Lakesailor....there was nothing contradictory about my statement "By killing nesting geese they ensure they will be replaced by nesting geese year after year. ----if 200 geese are killed for 5 years that pretty well exterminates the geese, doesn’t it?."
ermmm....not if they are "replaced by nesting geese year after year.".
Either culling geese eradicates them over a period OR they repopulate.
Both circumstances cannot happen. Thus your statement was contradictory.
I'm accused of not having empathy.
Is that a requirement to post on here or to be allowed an opinion?
henryalex
says...
11:26am Tue 14 Feb 12
lakesailor
says...
10:45am Wed 15 Feb 12
henryalex wrote:I am not arguing with your rights to hold your opinions. I have mine. But the fact I have little empathy with birds is self-evident yet would appear to be used as an argument against my viewpoint. It is some kind of ad hominem comment which adds nothing.
If you post on here lakesailor you have to be prepared for other contributors to challenge you. You, of course, have every right to express an opinion but informed discussion is always more worthwhile. We are not dealing with inanimate objects but sentient beings with a highly structured social society which is why others may expect you to show some empathy to the plight of the birds.
Anyway I have decided to help the situation.
I am in the advanced stages of preparing an "Adopt A Pair of Canada Geese" scheme. For the low price of £10 you can adopt your own lovely pair of sweet Canda Geese.
However there will be a £25 charge for carriage as they are too big to go 1st class and Parcel Post will have to be signed-for as we don't want them going astray.
henryalex
says...
11:18am Wed 15 Feb 12
LADY TILLY WINDERMERE
says...
7:02pm Wed 15 Feb 12
Last updated at 14:40, Wednesday, 15 February 2012
LEGENDARY rock guitarist Brian May has today announced his opposition to the proposed cull of Canada geese on Windermere.
Brian May
The Queen star, whose organisation Save Me campaigns for better treatment of animals, has spoken out strongly in support of Animal Aid's campaign against the Lake District National Park Authority's proposed cull of 200 geese this spring.
He said: "The proposed cull of Canada Geese in Windermere is the latest in a string of bad decisions to perceived problems relating to wild animals.
"The current climate of ignorance leads many people in authority, responding to the first complaint about an inconvenience or a loss in income, to reach for the gun.
"There is no need for me to comment about the multiple trumped-up bits of supposed scientific evidence offered to support this very ill-considered decision. All the justifications offered for the killing have been demolished by Animal Aid's analysis.".
Leon64
says...
10:47am Thu 16 Feb 12
http://www.animalaid
.org.uk/images/pdf/f
actfiles/Windermeref
actsheet.pdf
B.Pedreaper
says...
4:22pm Sat 18 Feb 12
Bird 'flu' has not been mentioned yet.
Try to influence your own home, we don't interfere with yours.
twitchy
says...
1:05pm Mon 20 Feb 12
save windermere geese says...
4:43pm Thu 9 Feb 12
com/groups/179274398
844878/?ref=notif&no
tif_t=group_r2j#!/gr
oups/179274398844878
/