More join protest over planned cull of Canada Geese at Windermere

1:28pm Thursday 9th February 2012 in News Photograph of the Author By Steven Bell, Senior Reporter

PLANS to cull Canada geese on Windermere are being met with mounting opposition.

The spring cull proposed by the Lake District National Park Authority would eliminate 200 of the non-native birds after complaints were made by landowners about the geese eating crops and concerns their droppings affect water quality.

South Lakeland conservationist Clive Hartley described the plan as ‘a total massacre’ and this week received backing from the Canada Goose Conservation Society (CGCS).

Another opponent has launched a petition, which has attracted about 150 signatures.

In a statement, the CGCS said it ‘deplored’ the LDNPA’s ‘cruel’ proposal and the 1,000 birds which live on the lake was a ‘tiny number’ compared to its size.

“It is nonsense to suggest that shooting the geese in the spring, when they are nesting, is likely to make it easier to kill both birds in a pair at the same time,” said a spokesman.

“Of course, the flock will all try to fly away as soon as they realise what is happening. Shooting is never humane; some birds will be wounded. The shooting of adult birds, as well as being cruel, is not an effective means of reducing numbers of Canada geese since more birds will always fly in to the territory.”

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Lake District visitor Neil Ryding contacted the Gazette to say he was ‘horrified’ at the cull and has started a petition calling on the LDNPA to re-think its plans.

“These are beautiful creatures who do no harm to anyone,” said Mr Ryding. “I love coming to the Lake District because of the wildlife, including the geese, but I will not be visiting again if this cull goes ahead.”

His petition can be found at www.change.org/petitions/stop-the-cull-of-geese-in-windermere-this-spring-please-do-not-allow-the-mass-geese-slaughter-in-windermere Meanwhile, dozens of people voiced their anger on The Westmorland Gazette website, some criticising the RSPB for not objecting to the cull.

HolisticH wrote: “I have been in contact with the RSPB to air my concerns and I urge others who are against the cull to contact them.”

And Henry Alex said he was disgusted and would cancel his RSPB membership, writing: “I am a member as I thought that they protect birds. The birds are wonderful living creatures.”

LDNPA ranger Steve Tatlock said killing the geese would improve water quality on Windermere, help with land management, address farming concerns and protect tourist activities.

He understood the issue was emotive and that any cull would be to high standards.

An RSPB spokesperson said: “We wouldn’t object to a bird culling if there was a good reason for it such as a health and safety issue.”

He added that the charity’s North West conservation officer would be looking into the reasons behind the planned cull before stating whether the RSPB was for or against it.

Comments(26)

save windermere geese says...
4:43pm Thu 9 Feb 12

http://www.facebook.
com/groups/179274398
844878/?ref=notif&no
tif_t=group_r2j#!/gr
oups/179274398844878
/

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save windermere geese says...
4:51pm Thu 9 Feb 12

OR JOIN SAVE WINDERMERE CANADA GEESE ON FACEBOOK

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MarionA says...
5:48pm Thu 9 Feb 12

Everyone should look at the information on this site ‘Lake District National Park, Canada Geese on Windermere’ as well as look at the links in ‘Useful Links and Documents’.

http://www.lakedistr
ict.gov.uk/caringfor
/policies/canadagees
e

I read about the ‘managed cull’ where it was described nesting geese would be shot ‘to reduce their stress’. This appears totally contradictory to information given in one of the links on that site where it says:

TIN009 - The management of problems caused by Canada geese: a guide to best practice (TIN009) says…….. "Thus, a cull of breeding birds MAY SIMPLY CREAT VACAN TERRORITIES for other birds to move into and repeat culls may be necessary for a number of years before the problem is finally brought under control.".

..... I think the fact nesting geese will be targetted exposes an extermination agenda…and they want to kill as many geese as possible. By killing nesting geese they ensure they will be replaced by nesting geese year after year. In fact another link on that page indicates a 5 year plan and if 200 geese are killed for 5 years that pretty well exterminates the geese, doesn’t it?

The numbers given are also varying widely from 1200 to 1000 and one article says there are ‘now 700’ while the ornithologist who has counted regularly says 600.

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MarionA says...
5:51pm Thu 9 Feb 12

I would be nice if someone more familiar with the area did some research on the water quality issue. I have done some research on Windermere Lake and think it is obvious if there is pollution it is much more likely it is caused by the large amount of tourist and human activities, run off from farming; other animals including horses, dogs, and domestic animals, humans, and United Utilities dumping RAW SEWAGE into that lake. There seems to be a lot of problems in that area with water drainage/overflows and raw sewage. Boating also affects water quality because it stirs up years of old cr*p from the bottom of the lake.

**Canada geese, despite the claims, have not really been shown on their own to damage the environment or pollute water…they are products of their environment. I think it is likely this is another case where the geese are being made ‘scapegeese’.

*“Studies have found that although waterfowl fecal matter can contribute inorganic nitrogen and phosphorus into fresh water lakes, the feces appeared to have a minimal impact (Pettigrew, Hahn 1998). Other researchers in salt water estuaries have argued that “Canada geese are not a significant source of new nitrogen because THEY SIMPLY RECYCLE NITROGEN ALREADY IN THE AREA. So their impact on estuary eutrophication is minimal at best”

http://icwdm.org/han
dbook/birds/CanadaGe
ese/HumanHealthWater
.aspx

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MarionA says...
6:01pm Thu 9 Feb 12

"Lake Windermere is polluted say environment watchdogs
England's most famous lakes are to be checked for pollution by the Environment Agency amid fears famous spots like Lake Windermere and Grassmere are being threatened by sewage, foreign weeds and climate change........Howeve
r Lake Windermere is being polluted by pesticides and fertilisers from farming, New Zealand Pigmyweed imported in 1911 is choking other wildlife and the lake is threatened with drought and flooding due to climate change."
.....mmm I don't see Canada geese mentioned as a threat to Windermere Lake.....scapegeese anyone?

http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/earth/earthne
ws/5345899/Lake-Wind
ermere-is-polluted-s
ay-environment-watch
dogs.html

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henryalex says...
11:23am Sat 11 Feb 12

Who is influencing the LDNP and RSPB? There is absolutely no scientific evidence that the geese are doing any harm. As earlier contributors say there is scientific evidence to show that they do not pollute, they do not affect water quality, they are not affecting any other species. They are a tourist attraction because people come to the Lake District to see wild life. What is harming Windermere is people finding out just how polluted Windermere is through finding out about the proposed cull. harmful chemicals from farming, sewage, detergents, diesel oil, radioactive waste have all been identified by university and environmental agency research. The news of this proposed cull has gone round the world quicker than any advertising the Lake District Tourist board has ever done. it has damaged the RSPB's reputation and membership.Wake up and stop the cull.

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lakesdream says...
11:31am Sat 11 Feb 12

There are now 1035 signatures on the petition.

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lakesailor says...
11:33am Sat 11 Feb 12

Hmm.
Bit contradictory there Marion
"By killing nesting geese they ensure they will be replaced by nesting geese year after year. ----if 200 geese are killed for 5 years that pretty well exterminates the geese, doesn’t it?."
ermmm....not if they are "replaced by nesting geese year after year."

The Freshwater Biological Association have been doing just that on Windermere for 80 years ( http://www.fba.org.u
k/ )

A fuss about nothing. A cull of 200 birds from 1000 is only 20%.

Mind you, if given a choice I'd rather it were the gulls being culled. At least some ducklings would survive their early days.

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lakesdream says...
12:00pm Sat 11 Feb 12

lakesailor you show no empathy what so ever for the suffering that wil be caused to these magnificent creatures. Canada Geese are sentient creatures who mate for life, will defend their young to the death. Shooting them and breaking up family groups if they don't shoot the whole family is extremely disressing for the remaining members. There is no evidence that the Windermere Geese have reached unsustainable numbers. If they ever do all over the world and in the UK sucessful programmes of humane reduction have taken place, for example in Strtaford upon Avon. The LDNP and RSPB know this so why are they proposing a cull? I think because a few influential land owners have pressurised them. The LDNPA is a public body and is accountable to the public. The public are making their feelings known.

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TwoHat says...
4:38pm Sat 11 Feb 12

lakesdream wrote:
lakesailor you show no empathy what so ever for the suffering that wil be caused to these magnificent creatures. Canada Geese are sentient creatures who mate for life, will defend their young to the death. Shooting them and breaking up family groups if they don't shoot the whole family is extremely disressing for the remaining members. There is no evidence that the Windermere Geese have reached unsustainable numbers. If they ever do all over the world and in the UK sucessful programmes of humane reduction have taken place, for example in Strtaford upon Avon. The LDNP and RSPB know this so why are they proposing a cull? I think because a few influential land owners have pressurised them. The LDNPA is a public body and is accountable to the public. The public are making their feelings known.
Only a vociferous minority of the public. Most, like me, couldn't give a ****. I just get a bit annoyed by the emotive language and over-reaction of the goosers. I doubt if most of the objectors would have as much to say if the geese weren't "magnificent creatures" or were ugly, or were simply being farmed for food like other breeds of goose.

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B.Pedreaper says...
5:02pm Sat 11 Feb 12

Free canada geese on Windermere. Collect as many as you like and take them home to Grange, Lancashire/Yorkshire industrial belt, to your own backyard, lakes,rivers, seaside and canals.

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lakesdream says...
5:56pm Sat 11 Feb 12

You are extremely mis informed to believe that is only people who live outside of the Windermere are that object to the cull. Or perhaps it is just wishful thinking! The Lake District economy also relies upon visitors. The people who live here are the guardians of the area but everyone has a right to visit and anjoy the area as long as they respect it. The negative publicity generated by this proposed cull is not healthy for the Lakes economy at a time when disposable income has been reduced so severely.

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PieWoman says...
8:10pm Sat 11 Feb 12

TwoHat wrote:
lakesdream wrote:
lakesailor you show no empathy what so ever for the suffering that wil be caused to these magnificent creatures. Canada Geese are sentient creatures who mate for life, will defend their young to the death. Shooting them and breaking up family groups if they don't shoot the whole family is extremely disressing for the remaining members. There is no evidence that the Windermere Geese have reached unsustainable numbers. If they ever do all over the world and in the UK sucessful programmes of humane reduction have taken place, for example in Strtaford upon Avon. The LDNP and RSPB know this so why are they proposing a cull? I think because a few influential land owners have pressurised them. The LDNPA is a public body and is accountable to the public. The public are making their feelings known.
Only a vociferous minority of the public. Most, like me, couldn't give a ****. I just get a bit annoyed by the emotive language and over-reaction of the goosers. I doubt if most of the objectors would have as much to say if the geese weren't "magnificent creatures" or were ugly, or were simply being farmed for food like other breeds of goose.
Well said TwoHat! Most of the contributors to this 'debate' are sentimentalists. I get the impression they would object to any form of predation, natural or otherwise. Its time for the silent majority to become more vocal.

Pie Woman

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MarionA says...
9:13pm Sat 11 Feb 12

Lakesailor....there was nothing contradictory about my statement "By killing nesting geese they ensure they will be replaced by nesting geese year after year. ----if 200 geese are killed for 5 years that pretty well exterminates the geese, doesn’t it?."
ermmm....not if they are "replaced by nesting geese year after year."......if you looked at the links I provided their own information states culling nesting pairs will result in a vacancy which will be filled with new nesting pairs next year.


TIN009 - The management of problems caused by Canada geese: a guide to best practice (TIN009) says…….. "Thus, a cull of breeding birds MAY SIMPLY CREAT VACAN TERRORITIES for other birds to move into and repeat culls may be necessary for a number of years before the problem is finally brought under control.".

It's interesting that their webpage says there are 1200 geese but other articles say 1000 or 'now 700'. Well the numbers they are tossing around alone takes care of 200 geese...no need for a cull of even 200.

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MarionA says...
9:19pm Sat 11 Feb 12

TwoHat says..
It's odd you get 'annoyed' by the 'over reaction' of the pro goosers but not the blatant propaganda being bandied about by the anti goosers to justify killing innocent birds. How does that work? It seems you just don't want facts to get in the way of your blissfully peaceful existence.

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henryalex says...
10:27pm Sat 11 Feb 12

It is interesting that when people are losing an argument that they start insulting people who have opposing views. You can't accuse people of being sentimental when you offer no scientific evidence for your views. This is because there are not any, all the evidence is that human activity causes the pollution of Windermere. I prefer to stick to facts rather than making personal attacks.

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Gini says...
3:32pm Mon 13 Feb 12

A cull was done in Prospect Park, Brooklyn, NY a year ago. The dead geese supposedly were fed to the poor. But new geese quickly filled the empty nesting spots. Isn't there some form of hormonal control that could be added to their food supply?

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B.Pedreaper says...
4:03pm Mon 13 Feb 12

Surprising that nobody has mentioned bird 'flu. yet.

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lakesailor says...
9:01am Tue 14 Feb 12

Marion A
"Lakesailor....there was nothing contradictory about my statement "By killing nesting geese they ensure they will be replaced by nesting geese year after year. ----if 200 geese are killed for 5 years that pretty well exterminates the geese, doesn’t it?."
ermmm....not if they are "replaced by nesting geese year after year.".

Either culling geese eradicates them over a period OR they repopulate.
Both circumstances cannot happen. Thus your statement was contradictory.

I'm accused of not having empathy.
Is that a requirement to post on here or to be allowed an opinion?

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henryalex says...
11:26am Tue 14 Feb 12

If you post on here lakesailor you have to be prepared for other contributors to challenge you. You, of course, have every right to express an opinion but informed discussion is always more worthwhile. We are not dealing with inanimate objects but sentient beings with a highly structured social society which is why others may expect you to show some empathy to the plight of the birds.

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lakesailor says...
10:45am Wed 15 Feb 12

henryalex wrote:
If you post on here lakesailor you have to be prepared for other contributors to challenge you. You, of course, have every right to express an opinion but informed discussion is always more worthwhile. We are not dealing with inanimate objects but sentient beings with a highly structured social society which is why others may expect you to show some empathy to the plight of the birds.
I am not arguing with your rights to hold your opinions. I have mine. But the fact I have little empathy with birds is self-evident yet would appear to be used as an argument against my viewpoint. It is some kind of ad hominem comment which adds nothing.

Anyway I have decided to help the situation.
I am in the advanced stages of preparing an "Adopt A Pair of Canada Geese" scheme. For the low price of £10 you can adopt your own lovely pair of sweet Canda Geese.
However there will be a £25 charge for carriage as they are too big to go 1st class and Parcel Post will have to be signed-for as we don't want them going astray.

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henryalex says...
11:18am Wed 15 Feb 12

I think that the discussion has been successful in establishing the basis for our differences of opinion lakesailor. My opinion is that whether or not someone feels empathy for another sentient creature is very pertinent to this issue. Now that you have declared that you have no empathy for the birds whereas I do there is a fundamentally different approach to the geese. You, I take it, do not mind them being shot despite the suffering that will result? The suffering is factual. The morality of causing this is debatable. I do appreciate your sense of humour, however. Perhaps you do have a point, a great tourist attraction would be to adopt a family of geese. The same geese return to the same nesting place each year so could be identified. I will suggest this to the Tourist Board who have had all past their work obliterated by the negative publicity this proposed cull has elicited.

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LADY TILLY WINDERMERE says...
7:02pm Wed 15 Feb 12

Queen star May opposes Windermere geese cull


Last updated at 14:40, Wednesday, 15 February 2012


LEGENDARY rock guitarist Brian May has today announced his opposition to the proposed cull of Canada geese on Windermere.


Brian May

The Queen star, whose organisation Save Me campaigns for better treatment of animals, has spoken out strongly in support of Animal Aid's campaign against the Lake District National Park Authority's proposed cull of 200 geese this spring.

He said: "The proposed cull of Canada Geese in Windermere is the latest in a string of bad decisions to perceived problems relating to wild animals.

"The current climate of ignorance leads many people in authority, responding to the first complaint about an inconvenience or a loss in income, to reach for the gun.

"There is no need for me to comment about the multiple trumped-up bits of supposed scientific evidence offered to support this very ill-considered decision. All the justifications offered for the killing have been demolished by Animal Aid's analysis.".

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Leon64 says...
10:47am Thu 16 Feb 12

Get the facts:
http://www.animalaid
.org.uk/images/pdf/f
actfiles/Windermeref
actsheet.pdf

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B.Pedreaper says...
4:22pm Sat 18 Feb 12

From the end of world war 11 until 1970 there were no Canada geese or cormorants on The Lake at any time of year. Now there are too many of both.
Bird 'flu' has not been mentioned yet.
Try to influence your own home, we don't interfere with yours.

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twitchy says...
1:05pm Mon 20 Feb 12

The main polluters of lake Windermere are human, I propose a cull on them, though by the time this goes national and tourist numbers dwindle in protest at the geese cull- there will be less pollution- so job done! No need to go on a killing spree and shoot nesting geese trying to protect their young.

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