Warning signs call after two deaths at Jack's Rake in Lake District

A CALL has been made for 'discreet' signs to be put up at a Lake District landmark where two walkers plunged to their deaths within days of each other.

Susannah Cox, 37, of Lancaster, died after falling from Jack’s Rake, a rocky scramble across Pavey Ark, in Great Langdale – less than a week after Howard Gladwyn, of Ilkley, took a tumble from the exposed rock face.

Mrs Cox’s husband, John, who was walking with her, said although he had researched the walk, he was not aware of the sudden scramble along the route. It was here he began feeling uncomfortable and grew worried for the safety of his wife.

“There were some climbers about a quarter-of-a-mile away,” said Mr Cox.

“I keep thinking I should have called them over to help. They would have helped her down. But it’s easy to say that with hindsight.

“I definitely think signs should be placed at the bottom of the walk.

"If it could help someone else in the future, then 100 per cent there should be signs there.”

Mrs Cox, originally from Hornby, worked for Lancaster City Council in the revenues department.

"If there could be some kind of rail for people to hold if they lose their balance, that would really help,” said Mr Cox.

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“I can’t change what happened, but if I could help someone else then that would bring some good out of this horrendous experience.”

Mr Gladwyn’s widow, Jane, said she would support ‘anything that would help save lives’.

“A sign that warns people before going up, would help people to think twice about a walk,” said Mrs Gladwyn.

“Anything to stop people going through what we are.”

Chris Tomlin, park management team leader for the Lake District National Park, said: “It’s a fine balance to strike between putting up warning signs to alert climbers, walkers, and swimmers to potential dangers while, at the same time, trying to preserve the uncluttered wild landscape people want to experience when they come to the Lake District.

“We believe we have that balance just about right, but tragedies like these always encourage us to look again at specific locations.”

Malcolm Petyt, vice-chairman of the Ramblers’ Association, said ‘small discreet signs’ would be acceptable.

“Our general view is the countryside shouldn’t be too cluttered with notices and that people should be responsible for their own safety, and take sensible precautions," he said.

“Having said that, if there is a place that is particularly dangerous, discreet, small signs are not something anybody could object to.”

Leader of Langdale and Ambleside Mountain Rescue Team, Nick Owen, said the proximity of the two accidents was ‘pure coincidence’ and no signs were needed.

Mr Owen, who assisted in both rescues, said they happened at different spots on Jack’s Rake during different weather conditions.

“It’s just one of those things, you might not get called out to an area for ages, then suddenly you get called out three times in one week,” said Mr Owen.

“I don’t think there’s any need for warning signs in any places in the Lake District.

"People need to be aware of the terrain and feel comfortable, but people should prepare for that.”

Wainwright Society member Derek Cockell said he would not support signs being placed around the Lake District.

“Putting up signs to warn people would be the wrong approach," he said.

"People ought to be encouraged to take responsibility for their own safety and be prepared to change their way in the light of what lies ahead.”

Comments(18)

Helvellyn55 says...
11:05am Thu 28 Jun 12

There is no justification for signs. Walkers who are so stupid as to fail to prepare for their intended excursion or keep their eyes about them when out deserve whatever regrettable fete. The Mountain Rescue folk deserve considerable praise for the calm manner in which they rescue people from a folly entirely of their own making and to them falls the recovery of the bodies of the hapless.

What next? Signs at the foot of Mount Everest to warn people that going to the summit can be dangerous?

Lee McC says...
12:01pm Thu 28 Jun 12

in may i decided to go up Harrison stickle in the Langdales via Pavey ark using Jacks Rake.I researched the walk thoroughly and was looking forward to the Rake.When i arrived at stickle tarn i saw for the first time what i was about to attempt and deliberated for a long while before coming to the conclusion that it was "a bridge too far" and deciding that it was not worth the risk.
No one but the visually impaired should need to be told that you could fall from Jacks Rake.
People should know their limits, stick to them and always have a plan B.

DaveHaygarth says...
12:03pm Thu 28 Jun 12

"although he had researched the walk, he was not aware of the sudden scramble along the route."

This is so tragic. What kind of research is that?

exiled_to_stoke says...
3:08pm Thu 28 Jun 12

First of all, my sympathy for anyone who loses a friend or relative in an accident of this kind.

Secondly, my appreciation for the efforts of those who go out, entirely voluntarily, at all hours, to assist those in difficulty.

But, really, "If there could be some kind of rail for people to hold if they lose their balance, that would really help,” said Mr Cox.

Perhaps a stairlift for the steep bits, some steps where the scramble is and street lighting in case it goes dark at night.

For goodness sake buy a copy of Wainwright, by far the best walking guidebooks you can buy.

Pavey Ark 5, first line: Jack's Rake is classified as a ROCK CLIMB. ... for much of the way the body is propelled forward by a series of convulsions unrelated to normal walking...and so on.

I've been up several times. From the scree at the bottom it is quite clear that this is not your usual 'path'.

nom9 says...
5:02pm Thu 28 Jun 12

I quite agree with you exiled. Wainwright didn't like it and I can't understand why it's only classed as a grade 1 scramble.

life cycle too says...
5:11pm Thu 28 Jun 12

I think the recent deaths are a tragedy for the families concerned, but I feel they are letting their feelings get in the way of common sense.

Jack's Rake has been climbed for many many years without any call for signs.
People need to stop expecting every little risk to be flagged up for their attention, buy a decent guide book - and enjoy everything the area has to offer with all the warning you will need.

Does anyone realise the danger presented by a simple bucket of water?

If you dip your head in it for an extended length of time, you could drown.
What is worse, several people could drown themselves if they removed the first victim before repeating the procedure.
You don't see signs on buckets warning of this!

snuggle-bunny says...
11:47pm Thu 28 Jun 12

you cant put signs up everywhere warning of dangers when you leave your house. maybe if folks used a bit of intelligence it might help

snuggle-bunny says...
11:47pm Thu 28 Jun 12

you cant put signs up everywhere warning of dangers when you leave your house. maybe if folks used a bit of intelligence it might help

snuggle-bunny says...
11:47pm Thu 28 Jun 12

you cant put signs up everywhere warning of dangers when you leave your house. maybe if folks used a bit of intelligence it might help

BillP says...
12:55am Fri 29 Jun 12

Utter nonsense. Know your limits and don't attempt anything you are not sure about.You can't turn round once you have committed yourself. I have been up Jack's rake three times and am still here to tell the tale....

nixon1 says...
11:16am Fri 29 Jun 12

I do not mean to disrupt these "big i am" comments but........2 people have died, tragically. And it is my personal opinion that if the friends and family of the deceased were to read these unnecessary comments patronising the family of the deceased about how the lack of intelligence have gotten these people killed.
Yes i agree that it is not the safest of walks and care should be taken. I also agree that a rail would be unnecessary and sign through the walk are still a far cry but please have a heart and not be passively aggressive to the family of the deceased.

nixon1 says...
11:18am Fri 29 Jun 12

And yes, i do now realise i have opened myself up to your comments of disapproval but i have said my 2 cents and will not comment/reply to any other comments on this thread directly aimed towards me. :)

H Lund says...
1:38pm Fri 29 Jun 12

It appears the first walker was in a group where at least someone would have known the risks. The national coverage of his death should have been enough of a warning to others just a week later. A sign may actually encourage the foolhardy, Jack's Rake isn't an obvious line. People should do their own research, they'll be better informed, and with more current information. The hardest part is at the top, especially for shorties, maybe it's getting harder from erosion by boots.

life cycle too says...
2:13pm Fri 29 Jun 12

The Bowder Stone in Borrowdale is getting polished by much climbing over the years - I struggled on it when I was last there.
You may well be right with regard to Jacks Rake - but don't shout too loudly of it, or it will be closed due to erosion!

I'm told that when the "Road Closed" signs go up on Kirkstone Pass, there is a rush by 4x4 owners to go and try out their skills on it - often ending up having to be recovered - so I can see your point regarding warning signs potentially making the matter worse.

exiled_to_stoke says...
2:49pm Fri 29 Jun 12

Nixon1 has chosen to deliver us his views and having done so determined that he will not enter into any further discussion. An interesting companion in the pub of an evening no doubt!

I think it fair to respond.

I think it proper that people be allowed to engage in an open discussion on important points that potentially impact upon all our lives, without the implication that to do so is insensitive and inappropriate.

Many of the ‘posts’ submitted against this story are not directed at the families of the individuals concerned, neither are they ‘big I am’. Merely they are an expression of the frustration, clearly felt by many, at the creeping suffocation that we suffer daily at the hands of the ‘powers that be’. Constant interference in our lives in order to protect us from ourselves as a result of the unfortunate actions of a few. In this case a couple of tragic accidents - for that is what they are, nothing more, nothing less. No lessons need to be learned, no further action is necessary.

It is essential to always be on guard against potential restrictions to our freedoms. In the war, careless talk cost lives. Casual comments to the press about yet more safety regulation require similar caution.

Somewhere, in a dark airless recess in Whitehall, a lover of red tape will have seen the comments made in the article itself (about signs) and think “yes, goodness me, we must do something to respect the wishes expressed. We must also prevent such a tragic accident reoccurring”. Up go the warning sings, in comes some bureaucratic regulation. Introduced in good faith (perhaps) but having the effect in practice of deterring people from carrying out the now regulated activity.

Initially, a suggestion that people log their proposed walk route on-line, next week it becomes compulsory.
Later, a suggestion that people take out specialist hill rescue insurance, next week it becomes compulsory.
Then a suggestion that people walk only in organised groups, next week it becomes compulsory.

Before you know it, one day you are out walking and, from behind a haystack, pops a uniformed official demanding your ‘National Park walkers licence’ together with a signed, dated and paid for ‘route authorisation permit’.

You think perhaps I’m being hysterical and over-reacting, really?

Who would have believed a few years ago that you would no longer be allowed to change a light fitting in your own bathroom without either employing a qualified tradesman or getting one to certify the work afterwards?

Finally, if readers think any of the posts made against this story are harsh, may I refer you to my local newspaper here in sunny Stoke-on-Trent – The Sentinel. Now there is a diatribe of evil and hatred with every ‘ism and ‘phobia thrown in.

H Lund says...
3:02pm Fri 29 Jun 12

I don't think there's much danger of that. Those with the power to legislate are the landowners, or have them as patrons. If you start saying where is, and where isn't, safe you run the risk of being liable when your signs mislead. It's good that stories like this make news, it informs people. We can rest assured that it's their rarity that makes them news worthy - people might have a different attitude to their driving if road deaths were reported with the same fervour.

Autolycan says...
2:40pm Mon 2 Jul 12

I am also sorry for the unfortunate outcome. We live in a risk averse society. This has the effect of folk not being aware of what constitutes peril to their very lives. Like common sense this cannot be taught, only acquired when very young. Climbing and hill walking have strong elements of self reliance, the foundation of which is an awareness of what constitutes risk. My advice to those not exposed to this culture...don't rely on others to make your risk assessments for you, however well meaning. If you believe you need artificial aids for your 'walk' then you really shouldn't be there.
As an aside I am sure that any warning signs/ handrails etc placed by nanny organisations will be mysteriously 'disappeared' within days of their introduction by people who believe hills are for the self reliant.

Rambling Pete says...
11:16am Fri 6 Jul 12

There was an online discussion concerning whether or not there should be warning signs at the start of the Crib Goch ridge in Wales, another seriously exposed walk. See the link below.

http://www.dailypost
.co.uk/news/north-wa
les-news/2008/02/12/
angry-reaction-to-wa
rning-signs-on-snowd
on-55578-20464551/

Walking in mountains is a risky business and each person who ventures out into them needs to take personal responsibility for making sound and sensible decisions concerning their own safety and to look after those they go with.

Therefore, it makes sense before you set off to ensure you are appropriately dressed in terms of suitable footwear and clothing to allow for changes in temperature and weather. Further, you should take a map and compass and know how to use them. With the advent of the internet, there is a wealth of electronic information available about mountains and walking routes so that you can thoroughly research both before attempting a walk. For instance, I walked the Crib Goch ridge for the first time this May, but only after having extensively read about it in walking books, magazines and on the internet so that I had a very good idea what was involved.

I am not convinced that warning signs at the start of Jack’s Rake are the answer as they could be damaged or vandalised. Further, the wilfully disobedient would just climb up anyway in defiance of them. In any case, where do you draw the line ? If you put up a warning sign there but not somewhere else that could be dangerous, does the lack of a sign imply that it is not also dangerous ?

With mountain walking generally, there is no substitute for common sense at the end of the day. When you first see Jack’s Rake on Pavey Ark across Stickle Tarn from the outflow, you should have a pretty good idea straightaway as to whether or not you feel able to tackle it. If you doubt that you can safely complete a particular walk or section of a mountain then don’t attempt it.

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