South Lakes council defends new pay and display parking system (From The Westmorland Gazette)
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South Lakes council defends new pay and display parking system
2:39pm Wednesday 5th September 2012 in News
By Daniel Orr, Reporter
A DISTRICT councillor has defended the use of new pay-and-display machines in South Lakeland which demand that people key in their registration details each time they park.
The move, which has cost South Lakeland District Council £340,000, has been rolled out across 38 car parks. The new machines prevent motorists pass-ing their ticket on to other drivers if time still remains on it.
It also helps SLDC ensure it receives the £2million it needs from car parking every year.
“All that the old machines did was collect cash and push out a ticket,” said Coun Ian Stewart, economy and enterprise portfolio holder.
“The new ones give us a lot more management options – we can take payment by card, or via text message. It gives people more flexibility.
“We rent the parking space to a vehicle, not to an individual,” said Coun Stewart.
“We could ask the question: Should we be renting a space for a car, or for a person who could then pass their ticket on to someone else if they have 15 minutes left?”
Coun Stewart said he would happily open up the debate on this, and encouraged people to let SLDC know their views.
But he added: “A net £2million comes from car parking. That means we are able to provide services and are able to keep council tax lower than it might otherwise be. It is a balancing act.”
Ian Hale, of Barbon, wrote to The Westmor-land Gazette to express his unhappiness at the new machines in Kirkby Lonsdale.
He said: “I have not seen a new machine without a queue, and an ill-tempered one at that. The keyboard is on a vertical surface and is clumsy to use, even for computer-liter- ate people.
“The keys are tiny and difficult to use. We have to contend with the local weather and darkness, and there is no shelter.”
Mr Hale was one of a number of people to contact the Gazette asking whether the introduction of the machines was a ‘new level of surveillance’.
But Coun Stewart said: “The registration details are only on the ticket. They are not kept and we wouldn’t give them to anybody else.”
Brian Chadwick, of Grange-over-Sands, par-ked his car outside Booths supermarket, in Kendal, and said: “It wasn’t the easiest of things to operate. Just trying to see the num-bers and letters on the keypads was difficult enough. It isn’t immed-iately clear what you should be doing.”
Dave Shields, of Bow-ness, who used the same machine, said: “It turns the simple process of parking into a hassle. I have seen many people who cannot remember their registration having to walk back to their car to write it down.”
“And why shouldn’t I be able to give my ticket to another person? It is not as if my car is paying for it. It is me and, surely, if I have some minutes left and want to be kind to someone else, I should have the choice to do that.”
Comments(46)
JBean2
says...
4:48pm Wed 5 Sep 12
I seem to remember a consultation not very long ago on car parking. I guess SLDC looked at the replies to this and came up with the idea of making sure we council tax payers weren't trying to rip them off by swapping tickets.
What about the suggestion that you should pay on leaving the car park and then only pay for the time you have used? But of course now SLDC can charge more than one person the £1.20 charge for parking within the same hour. No wonder they like it.
I think the fact that you now don't need cash is a good improvement however.
I recently went to Knutsford and parked at Booths for 40p for one hour, leaving me feeling that we are being unfairly charged in Kendal. What is the justification for this? Instead of thinking of ways to raise more money from people, why don't SLDC think of ways of cutting spending.
life cycle too
says...
5:28pm Wed 5 Sep 12
In the meantime, perhaps drivers should appeal to the unfair rents tribunal!!
boris plasticmac
says...
5:28pm Wed 5 Sep 12
The notices on the machines about this charge have not been clear and in the two car parks in town were the charge does not apply - Booths and the Parish Church - people can be found paying daytime charges after 6.00.
On the whole I don't blame the council for raising revenues from the car parks but there comes a point when squeezing the asset so dry becomes counter productive.
Lakeuk
says...
7:53pm Wed 5 Sep 12
Seriously how many people actually pass on their tickets, I'd say it's so low that the action of forcing everyone to enter their plate number will have a negative impact on the usage of their car parks, I'm waiting for the first person to get a ticket for entering their number wrong. You only need to do a little online research into the recent parking machine changes to LDNPA car parks to see all the complaints for visitors to the area.
Council need to get there act together, couple of months back they made out they listen to the public when promoting their parking trail in a few underused car parks, yet why have they not ask for public views on whether having to enter your licence plate each time you parked was appropriate
onelocal
says...
8:29pm Wed 5 Sep 12
life cycle too
says...
8:43pm Wed 5 Sep 12
I don't phone or text.. or trust card machines that are not monitored to ensure they are not compromised by HiTech thieves!
The net result will be that I shall continue to avoid SLDC car parks, and shop in Southport while visiting my mother in law, where their Park and Ride scheme is just £1.50 to park ALL DAY, with a bus to take you anywhere you might wish to shop every 15 minutes!
The money is collected by a genial man who gives you your change, and a cheery greeting!!
Ben Berry
says...
9:28pm Wed 5 Sep 12
But i think we will get used to them over time. Whether we should or not is the debate (quite one sided) that we are having at the moment.
snuggle-bunny
says...
10:28pm Wed 5 Sep 12
Kendmoor
says...
8:58am Thu 6 Sep 12
we avoid using carparks where you have to put your reg in. sounds like in this case the solution that would make everyone "happy" is paying for the time you use only on the way out..of course, with the amount of money already spent I would say its a little too late..........
Geoff103
says...
9:05am Thu 6 Sep 12
No business would countenance this level of capital spending for such a minimal return but councils are different. After all, it's not their own money they are spending so there's no limit on the amount that can be wasted.
The new system is an abomination. Leaving aside the pettifogging, mean-spirited attitude to those few drivers passing on tickets with unused time to other drivers, the new machines don't give change, don't accept all coin sizes with the result that drivers are often forced to pay for more time than they need. In any other transaction a payment system that was deliberately designed to overcharge would be considered fraudulent.
The new car parking ticket machines are just the latest example of council incompetence, profligacy and contempt for the public that only full-time Councillors could implement and than afterwards consider worth "opening a debate" on.
boris plasticmac
says...
9:32am Thu 6 Sep 12
gadgetgadget
says...
11:41am Thu 6 Sep 12
Public toilets closed etc were MUCH more important than this.
What would concern me also about this is what will they do with the registration data that the machines will collect and how will it be used ?
This should have been in the public domain LONG before a decision was made on it.
Another way to lose tourists - well done SLDC well done ... idiots.
Disgraceful.
kendalwasgreat
says...
12:56pm Thu 6 Sep 12
Ben Berry wrote:councillor Ben your here, (But i think we will get used to them over time) keep telling the plebs that and they will start to believe it hahahaha couldn't make it up hahahahhohohoho more waste of council tax money hohohohohhahahahah..
Its like difusing a bomb! haha.
But i think we will get used to them over time. Whether we should or not is the debate (quite one sided) that we are having at the moment.
.
Geoff103
says...
1:14pm Thu 6 Sep 12
gadgetgadget wrote:Data collection?
SLDC are an absolute disgrace. £340k on this !!
Public toilets closed etc were MUCH more important than this.
What would concern me also about this is what will they do with the registration data that the machines will collect and how will it be used ?
This should have been in the public domain LONG before a decision was made on it.
Another way to lose tourists - well done SLDC well done ... idiots.
Disgraceful.
I wouldn't worry about that. It's far too easy to enter a wrong reg number and print out the ticket before it is obvious a correction is needed.
The greater worry is what will happen after paying correctly and the enforcement officer arrives.
I've used them three times, so far. On the first occasion, my wife got the Reg number wrong xxx 11 CGY in place of xx 11 CGY. On the second occasion, I tapped the correct number in and got a ticket reading CGY!
It's practically impossible to see the screen displaying the result of the key entry before paying and printing the ticket.
No doubt, councillor Ian Stewart thinks such mistakes should be followed by a second shot at data entry and second couple of quid in the slot.
AJD001
says...
1:23pm Thu 6 Sep 12
If the Tour of Britain had'nt blocked off the normal parking areas I'd of bypassed these machines and used other areas of the town - for FREE
Also if you buy say 2 hours and only occupy the space for 1.5 hrs where do we go for the 30 min refund?
another example of rip-off Britain, next they'll start charging for use of the pavements
exunderly
says...
2:08pm Thu 6 Sep 12
Geoff103
says...
2:38pm Thu 6 Sep 12
Refund? You have to be joking. SLDC and Cllr Stewart are no doubt looking now at every possible penalty they can apply for leaving a space before the time is up.
BillyBob86
says...
4:51pm Thu 6 Sep 12
So does this mean that if 'my car' over stays and gets a parking fine, it is therefore my car's reponability to pay the fine, and therefore I do not need to pay??
It is the individual that pays for the ticket in the first place and the individual that takes responability for putting a valid ticket on and is therefore liable for costs. So how does SLDC justify saying that they do not rent the space to the individual when it is clear that the agreement of renting is between the council and the individual?!
Geoff103
says...
4:59pm Thu 6 Sep 12
Their explanation that, "We rent the parking space to a vehicle, not to an individual" is a distinction without a difference.
It is, of course, a weasel word explanation that all councils have come to rely on. And one 'They' exploit having all the legal power to defy both common sense and the public they both exploit and oppress.
We are very close in this country to the point where both pitchforks, lamposts and ropes become the only weapons we have left to deal with both Councils and Government since the ballot box clearly has no impact.
BillP
says...
6:30pm Thu 6 Sep 12
kendalwasgreat
says...
6:50pm Thu 6 Sep 12
AJD001 wrote:awwwww please don't put any ideas in their thieving minds about charging for the use of pavements.... cos they will.
I experienced these machines a few years back in Great Yarmouth - it took me 15 mins to work out how to do it and I'm a gent in his 30's who's fairly tech savvy - I can also read and the instructions were more confusing than actually fumbling your way through it!
If the Tour of Britain had'nt blocked off the normal parking areas I'd of bypassed these machines and used other areas of the town - for FREE
Also if you buy say 2 hours and only occupy the space for 1.5 hrs where do we go for the 30 min refund?
another example of rip-off Britain, next they'll start charging for use of the pavements
KendalLad
says...
8:21pm Thu 6 Sep 12
KendalLad
says...
8:21pm Thu 6 Sep 12
boris plasticmac
says...
9:19pm Thu 6 Sep 12
These machines may not be a problem for you but they can be for others and may be if you were on a fixed income you might find the £1 a bit more of a big deal.
life cycle too
says...
9:36am Fri 7 Sep 12
It will only be a matter of time before we are tattooed with a bar code so that we can be scanned every where we go!
I am also tech savvy, and yet I found them fiddly and time consuming to use, with the display being difficult to read - the sun was setting behind the one by the cinema in Bowness when I used it.
Good job it wasn't raining at the time, or I wouldn't have persevered with it, and would have gone home!
KingofGrasmere
says...
10:52am Fri 7 Sep 12
Geoff103
says...
11:06am Fri 7 Sep 12
Yawn, yawn indeed. There's always one who turns up and dribbles on about saving the planet.
Most of us are concerned not so much about the inconvenience of the new parking machines (and by heavens, they are an abomination) but about the unerring ability of councils to waste our money, boss us about with petty restrictions, deliver an inadequate service and generally treat us as their 'serfs'.
And by the way, the planet is big enough to take care of itself.
Ben Berry
says...
2:54pm Fri 7 Sep 12
Kendmoor
says...
3:37pm Fri 7 Sep 12
e for news.bbc.co.uk/havey
oursay
for bigger issues people go to bigger websites and talk there, for local issues and to comment on things that are going on locally such as this they come here. Its like getting annoyed at McDonalds for having a terrible vegetarian selection; people don't go to mcdonalds for veggie food, if they do, they're stupid.
Gingery
says...
4:01pm Fri 7 Sep 12
About 1 month ago I parked at Waterhead car park in Ambleside. Being fairly local and highly aware of the SLDC policy to charge overnight fees, I assumed quickly scanned the list of prices which read, 1/2hr, 1hr, 2hr, 4hr, 12hours. Now I was going to be around 4 hours, so to be doubly sure I made the mistake of choosing the 12 hour option. Remembering the SLDC policy of overnight charging I didn't read the applicable times, which were 8am-8pm and bought a £7 ticket. I then noticed the expiry on the ticket was 7.30pm the following day.
I actually only needed to pay for 30 minutes (up until 8pm). Ok I should have taken more time to read the information, but the SLDC move to overnight charging had me convinced all car parks in the area charged round the clock.
My own stupidity but also an example of how confusing different car parks, run by different organisations can be.
Ben Berry
says...
4:08pm Fri 7 Sep 12
See the article about Hawkshead for the feelings about that system...
Gingery
says...
8:51pm Fri 7 Sep 12
That's the problem, I didn't realise it was operated by someone else. Just assumed they were all the same, and with the publicity re new overnight charges assumed I needed to pay for longstay ticket. I was in a rush and had just helped a foreign tourist out re directions and info in the area. Too busy being helpful to watch out for myself!
Lesson learned.
Airfix
says...
10:46am Sat 8 Sep 12
Now we can't get that pleasant interaction from giving or received a ticket with time left on it!
Would be interested in requesting the business case for this scheme under the freedom of information act as well to see the net present value and pay back period. I bet it's 5 years plus.
ELBEAN
says...
1:07am Sun 9 Sep 12
Airfix
says...
2:39pm Sun 9 Sep 12
http://www.southlake
land.gov.uk/download
s/page424/FOI_APPLIC
ATION_FORM.pdf
snuggle-bunny
says...
4:41pm Mon 10 Sep 12
life cycle too
says...
7:14am Tue 11 Sep 12
snuggle-bunny wrote:You will have either forgotten by then, or will be bewitched by some other issue that councillors will have brought to your attention!
The sldc councilors get free parking and don't care about the public having to pay. Their 'let them eat cake' arrogant attitude says it all- they think they're safe and untouchable and cant be sacked. Roll on the next council elections
snuggle-bunny
says...
3:31pm Tue 11 Sep 12
Hoad Hill
says...
3:45pm Tue 11 Sep 12
KingofGrasmere
says...
3:48pm Tue 11 Sep 12
Ben Berry
says...
8:56am Wed 12 Sep 12
snuggle-bunny wrote:If you're angry enough stand, I did. If you don't want to stand on a party ticket there is support for independents.
I for one won't be voting for my councilor again
If you'd like to know more about what is involved give me a shout. :-)
Ben Berry
says...
8:56am Wed 12 Sep 12
snuggle-bunny wrote:If you're angry enough stand, I did. If you don't want to stand on a party ticket there is support for independents.
I for one won't be voting for my councilor again
If you'd like to know more about what is involved give me a shout. :-)
life cycle too
says...
9:30am Wed 12 Sep 12
There was certainly a long wait at Booths - maybe the council need to look into this.
life cycle too
says...
9:43am Wed 12 Sep 12
KingofGrasmere wrote:Oh, has the badger cull started already?
Go and run over a badger Geoff 103!!
I see Natural England are involved in the badger cull - I didn't expect that!
boris plasticmac
says...
9:58am Wed 12 Sep 12
life cycle too wrote:I can confirm that there was a queue at the Booths machine when I went past yesterday. It should be fairly obvious by now that the system is not people friendly and is adding to the increasing petty irritations we have to face each day.
From asking around, many people seem to find the keypad fiddly to use, because it is vertical, with silver buttons they find hard to read.
There was certainly a long wait at Booths - maybe the council need to look into this.
Ambience says...
3:06pm Wed 5 Sep 12
I used the ladies toilet there, and someone had kindly wedged the door open with a rock so nobody had to pay. Whoever runs the toilets must have lost quite a bit of revenue as the weather was lovely and it was very busy.