Cull of 200 Canada geese planned in Lake District (From The Westmorland Gazette)
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Cull of 200 Canada geese planned in Lake District
8:30am Thursday 2nd February 2012 in Bowness news
By Steven Bell, Senior Reporter
A SOUTH Lakeland conservationist has slammed a planned cull of Canada Geese on Windermere as ‘a total massacre’.
Clive Hartley hit out at the Lake District National Park Authority (LDNPA), which is considering killing around 200 of the birds this spring.
It follows complaints from landowners about geese eating grass and crops and there are also concerns their droppings affect water quality.
An LDNPA spokesman said it would be the first time it had carried out a cull but numbers had ‘reached a point where we have to take action’.
Mr Hartley, of Grange-over-Sands, resigned from the authority’s geese management group, saying he was ‘disgusted’ at the plans as they had ‘no scientific justification’.
“At that time of year, the geese are found in big flocks and are looking for protection from predators – you can walk up to them,” he said.
“It’s not a cull, it’s a slaughter as far as I’m concerned.”
The naturalist said Canada Geese numbers had ‘fluctuated’ over the years but had not ‘gone over the top’.
“From a wildlife point of view, I know Windermere as good as anybody,” he explained.
“I think, in the 21st Century, it’s a great pity and a sad reflection of our country that with issues to do with wildlife, the answer is to start killing them.
“It’s happening with badgers at the moment – where do you draw the line?”
Mr Hartley, who makes a monthly count of all waterbirds on Windermere, said there were around 661 Canada Geese on Windermere.
But LDNPA ranger Steve Tatlock said the number was around 1,200, which was why the cull had been proposed.
“Mr Hartley’s figures are based purely on land-based observations, whereas ours are carried out from a boat giving us a more complete survey and picture of overall numbers,” he said.
Mr Tatlock said the geese were a ‘non-native species’ and a cull would improve water quality, help with land management, address farming concerns and protect tourist activities.
“We understand that this is an emotive issue,” he said.
“If a cull does take place, it will be to the highest possible professional standards.”
Mr Hartley said the group had recommended increasing the cull from 200 to 600. But he said this ‘would be a total massacre, not a cull’.
The LDNPA said it would gather more scientific data about local movements of geese on lakes such as Windermere.
A spokesman for the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds (RSPB) said the group would not object to the ‘legal control of Canada Geese, so long as all non-lethal methods’ were considered and licence conditions were met.
Comments(88)
WilliamT
says...
10:55am Thu 2 Feb 12
Hordes of animals being killed in slaughterhouses is not a delightful prospect either.
lakesailor
says...
11:52am Thu 2 Feb 12
They are noisy. It's alright living in Grange. You try living near them.
I don't know where Mr Hartley's figure of 661 geese comes from. The population varies all the time. We are just coming up to the period when you can't move for them. Yes they look very attractive in their huge floating lines of geese at dusk, but less birds would still be an attractive sight.
I wonder if Mr Hartley also bemoans the dearth of water voles but supports the re-introduction of otters which....erm....eat water voles? Or supports the animal hospitals which treat and release foxes!
Even the RSPB don't object to a cull.
It's a sensible solution to overpopulation. The cormorants were culled years ago and the present population is hardly intrusive.
It seems to me that naturalists and conservationists are generally one-issue campaigners.
The whole problem needs looking at from every point of view.
Ben Berry
says...
12:05pm Thu 2 Feb 12
100% in favour of the cull.
FYI its by painting eggs, and therefore aborting them, not shooting them(which defra will give you a licence for no problems due to being an alien pest).
WilliamT
says...
12:21pm Thu 2 Feb 12
lakesman
says...
1:37pm Thu 2 Feb 12
tictoc1
says...
2:38pm Thu 2 Feb 12
lakesailor
says...
5:14pm Thu 2 Feb 12
I'll keep an eye on it and tell you if it's OK (or dead).
I will do this for any number of adopters.
TwoHat
says...
5:50pm Thu 2 Feb 12
life cycle too
says...
7:23pm Thu 2 Feb 12
Mr Tatlock said the geese were a ‘non-native species’ and a cull would improve water quality, help with land management, address farming concerns and protect tourist activities.
Are Canada Geese exclusively the cause of poor water quality?
Not swans, or ducks?
Are tourists put off by geese but not other birds?
Keep it REAL.
The reason that they are not wanted, is that farmers are losing out to nature!
If there is so much poop, then they should be collecting it and selling it as fertiliser.
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Guano
What is needed are a few more foxes...!
zaney5
says...
7:53pm Thu 2 Feb 12
Tegan wrote:Amen to that. This is absolutely horrendous.
This is disgusting! These birds have been here longer then us and what harm are they doing to anyone!
If you want to cull pests may I suggest you start with Steve Tatlock and his LDNPA cronies.
tunst48
says...
11:41am Fri 3 Feb 12
TwoHat
says...
12:17pm Fri 3 Feb 12
More's the pity!!
tictoc1
says...
12:20pm Fri 3 Feb 12
tunst48 wrote:I couldn't agree more! I'll get laughed at for this but, couldn't we introduce another type of bird or animal (for a period of time) that would drive these geese away? That way it would be sort of like nature taking control of the problem? Just a thought?
I think this is terrible, culling these birds will not solve the problem long term, another solution should be gained, (provide them with another home) after all we don't cull humans because they are a pest to society do we!!
TwoHat
says...
12:30pm Fri 3 Feb 12
tictoc1 wrote:Good idea! How about that big cat that people keep spotting? That ought to do the trick! On the same lines, its a bit of a surprise that Bownessie hasn't surfaced to scoff a few dozen of them, isn't it?
tunst48 wrote:I couldn't agree more! I'll get laughed at for this but, couldn't we introduce another type of bird or animal (for a period of time) that would drive these geese away? That way it would be sort of like nature taking control of the problem? Just a thought?
I think this is terrible, culling these birds will not solve the problem long term, another solution should be gained, (provide them with another home) after all we don't cull humans because they are a pest to society do we!!
life cycle too
says...
12:53pm Fri 3 Feb 12
B.Pedreaper
says...
2:32pm Fri 3 Feb 12
PieWoman
says...
7:04pm Fri 3 Feb 12
Pie Woman
p.s. zaney5 - you should be ashamed of yourself!
tictoc1
says...
8:39pm Fri 3 Feb 12
Soren
says...
9:06pm Fri 3 Feb 12
tictoc1 wrote:In which case, there are probably six billion too many of us for nature to cope with. Who's going to start the cull?
"Nature needs balance."?!!! Then let mature take it's own course!
zaney5
says...
9:57pm Fri 3 Feb 12
PieWoman wrote:Why?
This decision will not have been taken lightly. The National Park Authority may be the ones taking the action, but it is a view shared by many different organisations including Natural England and the RSPB. Stop being so reactionary and think about the bigger picture. Nature needs balance.
Pie Woman
p.s. zaney5 - you should be ashamed of yourself!
AmeliaJane
says...
10:26pm Fri 3 Feb 12
PieWoman
says...
10:47pm Fri 3 Feb 12
tictoc1 wrote:OK, the geese might look cute, but their number is artificially high. We suffer the same problem with duck-feeding resulting in duckponds being so foul, too many pigeons and rats in city centres feeding off food waste etc. Human impact on all these habitats has affected the ecosystem and caused an overpopulation by one particular species.
"Nature needs balance."?!!! Then let mature take it's own course!
Do you want a Windermere with poor water quality causing a loss of habitat for other aquatic species and a loss of amenity for humans? I don't.
Pie Woman
zaney5 - think about it for a while.
life cycle too
says...
11:53pm Fri 3 Feb 12
zaney5 wrote:I guess it was your suggestion that Steve Tatlock should be culled?
PieWoman wrote:Why?
This decision will not have been taken lightly. The National Park Authority may be the ones taking the action, but it is a view shared by many different organisations including Natural England and the RSPB. Stop being so reactionary and think about the bigger picture. Nature needs balance.
Pie Woman
p.s. zaney5 - you should be ashamed of yourself!
life cycle too
says...
12:30am Sat 4 Feb 12
PieWoman wrote:Weren't Natural England the ones who denied that sheep could be damaging flora near Mark Weir's Via Ferrata - yet he filmed the sheep eating the plants?
This decision will not have been taken lightly. The National Park Authority may be the ones taking the action, but it is a view shared by many different organisations including Natural England and the RSPB. Stop being so reactionary and think about the bigger picture. Nature needs balance.
Pie Woman
p.s. zaney5 - you should be ashamed of yourself!
While they have the best interests at heart, they do seem to slip up in the practicality department.
Nature DOES need balance - and it is man's upsetting of the balance that has brought the geese here.
Is shooting them the best that they can do to restore the balance?
zaney5
says...
8:53am Sat 4 Feb 12
life cycle too wrote:But killing a whole load of innocent wildlife is ok?
zaney5 wrote:I guess it was your suggestion that Steve Tatlock should be culled?
PieWoman wrote:Why?
This decision will not have been taken lightly. The National Park Authority may be the ones taking the action, but it is a view shared by many different organisations including Natural England and the RSPB. Stop being so reactionary and think about the bigger picture. Nature needs balance.
Pie Woman
p.s. zaney5 - you should be ashamed of yourself!
Jeez people get a grip. At least I was talking with my tongue firmly stuck in my cheek. Unlike Mr Tatlock.
life cycle too
says...
10:04am Sat 4 Feb 12
And why did oiling the eggs not work? It has worked elsewhere!
brokenbanjo
says...
10:13am Sat 4 Feb 12
Natural England did not deny that sheep were eating plants in the Honister area, the reason why the Lake District is covered in bracken or grass and hardly any heather is because of sheep. Where the Via Ferrata was, there was increased footfall that damaged the site. Hence the successful conviction of the Slate Mine. It's amazing how the production of a TV programme can distort the truth. Lifecycle, have you ever tried contacting Natural England about the issues covered in the programme? I bet not, much better to fire il-informed statements from your ivory tower!
Chickp66
says...
1:26pm Sat 4 Feb 12
Chickp66
says...
1:41pm Sat 4 Feb 12
Chickp66
says...
1:47pm Sat 4 Feb 12
lakesailor
says...
7:11pm Sat 4 Feb 12
We are dominant.
There are too many geese.
The geese get the chop.
Pringle1982
says...
7:57pm Sat 4 Feb 12
And Humans were the ones to introduce most of the non-natives anyway!
"We are dominant" and what a **** shame that is for this planet.
HolisticH
says...
9:20pm Sat 4 Feb 12
lakesman wrote:I am 100% AGAINST the cull of these beautiful birds. I feel utterly disgusted reading some of the above comments, idiotic jokes about shooting these geese and saving yourself a bit of cash before Christmas or referring to these birds as pests!! How can people be so flippant about such a serious issue! I have obviously been in contact with the RSPB to air my concerns and I urge others who are against the cull to contact them. As for the people who are supporting the cull of these precious birds, lets hope that the government never brings in a cull to deal with the over populated human race, id hate to hear your views on that!
its a shame this was nt done before christmas ,then they could of sold them for cristmas ,and made bit of much needed cash
TwoHat
says...
11:08am Sun 5 Feb 12
HolisticH wrote:I wasn't joking, and what qualifies you to judge my intelligence? You are entitled to your opinion, and so are others. Calling those who disagree with you "idiots" doesn't make your opinion worth any more than theirs.
lakesman wrote:I am 100% AGAINST the cull of these beautiful birds. I feel utterly disgusted reading some of the above comments, idiotic jokes about shooting these geese and saving yourself a bit of cash before Christmas or referring to these birds as pests!! How can people be so flippant about such a serious issue! I have obviously been in contact with the RSPB to air my concerns and I urge others who are against the cull to contact them. As for the people who are supporting the cull of these precious birds, lets hope that the government never brings in a cull to deal with the over populated human race, id hate to hear your views on that!
its a shame this was nt done before christmas ,then they could of sold them for cristmas ,and made bit of much needed cash
HolisticH
says...
11:42am Sun 5 Feb 12
TwoHat wrote:"I wasn't joking, and what qualifies you to judge my intelligence? You are entitled to your opinion, and so are others. Calling those who disagree with you "idiots" doesn't make your opinion worth any more than theirs"
HolisticH wrote:I wasn't joking, and what qualifies you to judge my intelligence? You are entitled to your opinion, and so are others. Calling those who disagree with you "idiots" doesn't make your opinion worth any more than theirs.
lakesman wrote:I am 100% AGAINST the cull of these beautiful birds. I feel utterly disgusted reading some of the above comments, idiotic jokes about shooting these geese and saving yourself a bit of cash before Christmas or referring to these birds as pests!! How can people be so flippant about such a serious issue! I have obviously been in contact with the RSPB to air my concerns and I urge others who are against the cull to contact them. As for the people who are supporting the cull of these precious birds, lets hope that the government never brings in a cull to deal with the over populated human race, id hate to hear your views on that!
its a shame this was nt done before christmas ,then they could of sold them for cristmas ,and made bit of much needed cash
Off course it doesn't, I'm not measuring people's intelligence, I'm measuring how cruel and narrow minded people are!
I am here to share my comments on the dire situation with the Canada Geese, which I have done, I'm not interested in anything else (that means you or you intelligence!).
HolisticH
says...
11:42am Sun 5 Feb 12
TwoHat wrote:"I wasn't joking, and what qualifies you to judge my intelligence? You are entitled to your opinion, and so are others. Calling those who disagree with you "idiots" doesn't make your opinion worth any more than theirs"
HolisticH wrote:I wasn't joking, and what qualifies you to judge my intelligence? You are entitled to your opinion, and so are others. Calling those who disagree with you "idiots" doesn't make your opinion worth any more than theirs.
lakesman wrote:I am 100% AGAINST the cull of these beautiful birds. I feel utterly disgusted reading some of the above comments, idiotic jokes about shooting these geese and saving yourself a bit of cash before Christmas or referring to these birds as pests!! How can people be so flippant about such a serious issue! I have obviously been in contact with the RSPB to air my concerns and I urge others who are against the cull to contact them. As for the people who are supporting the cull of these precious birds, lets hope that the government never brings in a cull to deal with the over populated human race, id hate to hear your views on that!
its a shame this was nt done before christmas ,then they could of sold them for cristmas ,and made bit of much needed cash
Off course it doesn't, I'm not measuring people's intelligence, I'm measuring how cruel and narrow minded people are!
I am here to share my comments on the dire situation with the Canada Geese, which I have done, I'm not interested in anything else (that means you or you intelligence!).
brokenbanjo
says...
12:38pm Sun 5 Feb 12
Now we look at plants and everyone seems to understand and accept that Japanese knotweed, Himalayan balsam and rhododendron needs removing from habitats, but there is never any uproar about that.
Non-native species are a menace humans created and it is only right that humans fix said menace. Yes Canada geese are lovely but they should be controlled.
brokenbanjo
says...
12:38pm Sun 5 Feb 12
Now we look at plants and everyone seems to understand and accept that Japanese knotweed, Himalayan balsam and rhododendron needs removing from habitats, but there is never any uproar about that.
Non-native species are a menace humans created and it is only right that humans fix said menace. Yes Canada geese are lovely but they should be controlled.
henryalex
says...
2:33pm Sun 5 Feb 12
TwoHat
says...
3:06pm Sun 5 Feb 12
Surely the geese are a man-made problem, and it is up to man to fix the problem, one way or another, before the balance of nature is shifted even further.
HolisticH
says...
5:28pm Sun 5 Feb 12
TwoHat wrote:Man-made problem?? you must think very highly of "man" to even consider any involvement in creating such beautiful animals! We should be finding ways of helping these creatures instead of finding ways to harm them!! I'm shocked at the so called human race, aren't we meant to be the evolved and civil ones! Instead all we do is harm each other and any creatures that fall in to our path.
Let's introduce another non-native species in that case, how about a predator to deal with the geese? That way we aren't culling them, and the animal rights nutters won't mind? Wolves would be good, or mountain lions maybe.
Surely the geese are a man-made problem, and it is up to man to fix the problem, one way or another, before the balance of nature is shifted even further.
zaney5
says...
5:33pm Sun 5 Feb 12
brokenbanjo
says...
5:37pm Sun 5 Feb 12
henryalex wrote:Ye sit was covered by ice, that is an irrefutable fact. However, a native species is one that made it to a particular place under it's own steam Not chucked on a ship in the 1800s because someone with more money than sense decided they would look pretty in their garden.
I am disgusted with the RSPB I am a member as I thought that they protect birds not kill them. I am cancelling my membership. This argument about non native species is fallacious, when does a species qualify as native? Same argument used by racists. The Lake District was covered by ice on and off for 2 million years, 12,00 years ago since the ice melted so all people, plants animals and birds are newcomers to Geologists like myself. The birds are here, they are wonderful living creatures, we should not be destroying them. This is also ruining the reputation of the Lake District so not a great commercial strategy for the LDNPA.
As a Geologist I would expect you to have some kind of scientific reasoning behind you. Try reading some of the reports by the IUCN and see the menace that introduced species present to native species.
The RSPB are merely looking at the bigger picture when it comes to the control of some species. ALL conservation organisations have to make tough decisions about particular species, especially cute and cuddly non-natives.
To imply that I am a racist is to describe nature anthropogenically and essentially highlights your limited understanding on the subject.
brokenbanjo
says...
5:42pm Sun 5 Feb 12
HolisticH wrote:The importation of Canada geese in to the Lake District IS a man-made problem. The hint is in the name of them...
TwoHat wrote:Man-made problem?? you must think very highly of "man" to even consider any involvement in creating such beautiful animals! We should be finding ways of helping these creatures instead of finding ways to harm them!! I'm shocked at the so called human race, aren't we meant to be the evolved and civil ones! Instead all we do is harm each other and any creatures that fall in to our path.
Let's introduce another non-native species in that case, how about a predator to deal with the geese? That way we aren't culling them, and the animal rights nutters won't mind? Wolves would be good, or mountain lions maybe.
Surely the geese are a man-made problem, and it is up to man to fix the problem, one way or another, before the balance of nature is shifted even further.
Plus Canada geese were never created, they evolved from a common ancestor of the brent and barnacle goose, hence the 'Branta' scientific nomenclature.
life cycle too
says...
8:15pm Sun 5 Feb 12
brokenbanjo wrote:I heard that the knotweed problem is to be tackled by introducing yet another none native species of psyllid, which feeds on the sap.
American mink, grey squirrel, muntjac deer, fallow deer, sika deer, Canada geese,... All species introduced by man and have had negative effects on habitats and native species in this Country. The IUCN state that non-native species are one of the top three greatest causes of extinction. Because they are cuddly, people get swayed by the semantics of the situation. The RSPB actively 'control' Canada geese on their reserves as they understand the negative effects they have on the habitats and other species present.
Now we look at plants and everyone seems to understand and accept that Japanese knotweed, Himalayan balsam and rhododendron needs removing from habitats, but there is never any uproar about that.
Non-native species are a menace humans created and it is only right that humans fix said menace. Yes Canada geese are lovely but they should be controlled.
I do hope that this is carefully controlled and monitored to ensure there are no unforeseen consequences!
Perhaps they need to get the geese to eat knotweed!
henryalex
says...
11:36pm Sun 5 Feb 12
henryalex
says...
11:36pm Sun 5 Feb 12
nixon1
says...
9:12am Mon 6 Feb 12
If the main issue is water quality i think the it should be noted that the poor water quality is not a result of geese
but UNITED UTILITIES dumping SEWAGE into the lake. Maybe a study should be done taking this in mind and NOT needlessly cull these animals. It seems this is always an easy answer when a minority complains.
http://www.thewestmo
rlandgazette.co.uk/n
ews/9111181.Raw_sewa
ge_will_not_affect_W
indermere_bathing_sp
ot__says_utility_fir
m/
henryalex
says...
3:15pm Mon 6 Feb 12
lakesailor
says...
5:33pm Mon 6 Feb 12
henryalex wrote:"This is also ruining the reputation of the Lake District "
I am disgusted with the RSPB I am a member as I thought that they protect birds not kill them. I am cancelling my membership. This argument about non native species is fallacious, when does a species qualify as native? Same argument used by racists. The Lake District was covered by ice on and off for 2 million years, 12,00 years ago since the ice melted so all people, plants animals and birds are newcomers to Geologists like myself. The birds are here, they are wonderful living creatures, we should not be destroying them. This is also ruining the reputation of the Lake District so not a great commercial strategy for the LDNPA.
Where would that be then? In your front room?
Get a sense of proportion man. They are not proposing to wipe them from the face of the earth but to reduce numbers to a manageable and healthy population. Do you also believe deer culling is wrong?
HolisticH
says...
7:12pm Mon 6 Feb 12
nixon1 wrote:Well Said Nixon1 & Henryalex! :)
I notice that no one has yet mentioned this, so i thought i best to bring it to your attention.
If the main issue is water quality i think the it should be noted that the poor water quality is not a result of geese
but UNITED UTILITIES dumping SEWAGE into the lake. Maybe a study should be done taking this in mind and NOT needlessly cull these animals. It seems this is always an easy answer when a minority complains.
http://www.thewestmo
rlandgazette.co.uk/n
ews/9111181.Raw_sewa
ge_will_not_affect_W
indermere_bathing_sp
ot__says_utility_fir
m/
henryalex
says...
9:25pm Mon 6 Feb 12
life cycle too
says...
9:43am Tue 7 Feb 12
I'm sure that the commercial vessels are monitored for any pollution output.
As to radioactivity, there are natural traces that concentrate in muds and silts, and some wash off from Chernobyl.
I don't recall even the tin foil hat brigade claiming Sellafield is polluting Windermere - although it will only be a matter of time once they read your post here which will be reposted elsewhere as fact!! :)
lakesailor
says...
12:50pm Tue 7 Feb 12
The average visitor to the Lakes probably doesn't even see the geese, they are very timid birds.
The issues of day visitors is to do with financial considerations which are not within our control.
To try and link the cull of a couple of hundred geese to a negative effect on local tourism is fanciful.
WilliamT
says...
1:14pm Tue 7 Feb 12
life cycle too
says...
2:26pm Tue 7 Feb 12
WilliamT wrote:They can indeed - every batch of irradiated material has a unique signature.
There may be some fallout residue in the lake from the Sellafield/ Windscale fire of 1957- these radiochemists are pretty good, and can probably separate that one from Chernobyl. Several orders of magnitude below the significance level of course. Otherwise, Sellafield is innocent. Free the Sellafield One!
It was monitoring of the atmosphere abroad at nuclear sites including Sellafield that detected that the Russians had a problem at Chernobyl - before it was made public by the USSR.
LADY TILLY WINDERMERE
says...
5:29pm Tue 7 Feb 12
http://www.articl
es.lovecanadageese.c
om/umpteenth.html
LADY TILLY WINDERMERE
says...
5:32pm Tue 7 Feb 12
There are humane ways to control Canada goose populations (see below) - if there really are too many geese in an area. But an unrepresentative minority of people can sometimes persuade a land-owner into hasty action against Canada geese which is deeply unpopular with the majority of land-users who like and appreciate these fine birds.
The best answer in urban areas - where many people want to feed the birds - is to encourage them in some areas but not in others (using the humane control methods described below). This makes it easier to keep parks clean, and keeps everyone happy. Remember that although goose-mess may look unsightly, it is not a health-hazard (it's simply recycled grass after all).
Egg-control (making eggs sterile by soaking in paraffin, or by some other method) is not considered a humane control method. However if carried out, then egg-control should be done as humanely as possible - i.e. soon after the laying time. If the eggs float when submerged in a bucket of water then the embryos are already 2 weeks old and well-developed and should be left alone. At least one egg should always be left unharmed, or geese will lay another clutch.
A combination of control measures may be more effective than one method by itself - and it is always best to seek specialist advice ..
LADY TILLY WINDERMERE
says...
5:53pm Tue 7 Feb 12
LADY TILLY WINDERMERE
says...
5:53pm Tue 7 Feb 12
LADY TILLY WINDERMERE
says...
5:53pm Tue 7 Feb 12
lakesdream
says...
9:52pm Tue 7 Feb 12
HolisticH
says...
10:07pm Tue 7 Feb 12
lakesdream wrote:Fantastic comment!!!
I am really angry and upset about this proposed cull. These are amazing birds. There is absolutley no evidence that they are causing any harm. There is a vast amount of research about water quality in Windermere and it is all due to human activity. Stratford upon Avon Council have successfully empolyed humane strategies to reduce their Canada Geese population. The RSPB and the LDNPA must know about these. They obviously cannot be bothered to employ the patient tactics which Stratford upon Avon did.Well done to Clive Hartley, you are an inspiration. I have been an active and loyal member of the RSPB for nearly 30 years and love Leighton Moss but I shall follow your example. I am resigning in disgust that they can support killing birds. I shall give my money to animal welfare charities who care for animals not destroy them. It is ridiculous to say that these birds should not be here, they have been here since the 1600s and it is not their fault that they are here. I don't go round saying that people who have not lived in the Lake District as long as my family should not be here and a lot of them cause more problems than the geese!
HolisticH
says...
10:08pm Tue 7 Feb 12
LADY TILLY WINDERMERE wrote:All together now "SAY NO TO THE CULL"
Goodness me the poor Canada goose has survived Bownessie who lurks in the dept of Windermere, it has managed not to get eaten by giant black cats which hangs around Windermere, surely it will not get culled. They are a welcoming sight when they fly over my horses every morning and evening infact I love seeing them flying over and I love the “honk sound they make . so say no to the cull !!!!!!!!!!
Beatrix Potter
says...
11:08pm Tue 7 Feb 12
Apart from the fact that they are a major tourist attraction, these
birds have learned to trust humans, not fear them. What will be the
next step....shoot the swans? You can't. It's against the law. It should also be against the law to shoot any of these creatures, especially those who live alongside humans.
I have read the comments on this page with great interest, particularly Lady Tilly Windermere’s research information proving geese poop is not at all harmful, and her knowledgeable advice regarding controlling geese numbers humanely. I was appalled to read the comment from Nixon 1 informing us that United Utilities is dumping sewage in the lake. Why has this be sanctioned? Surely stopping this practice should be the first step, not killing geese? If the issue is pollution, let’s ‘cull’ all those disgusting people who drop litter in and around Lake Windermere. They are destroying the environment, encouraging vermin and endangering wildlife.
It seems to me, from the above comments, that the only real argument in favour of killing the Canada Geese (and let’s not use the word ‘culling’), is from the farmer who objects to the geese sharing his grass with his sheep and his boat! Is this a good enough reason for 200 killings?
Please think again!
HolisticH
says...
11:12pm Tue 7 Feb 12
Beatrix Potter wrote:Couldn't agree more!
I was shocked and deeply concerned at the news that 200 of the magnificent Canada Geese living at Lake Windermere are destined be culled.
Apart from the fact that they are a major tourist attraction, these
birds have learned to trust humans, not fear them. What will be the
next step....shoot the swans? You can't. It's against the law. It should also be against the law to shoot any of these creatures, especially those who live alongside humans.
I have read the comments on this page with great interest, particularly Lady Tilly Windermere’s research information proving geese poop is not at all harmful, and her knowledgeable advice regarding controlling geese numbers humanely. I was appalled to read the comment from Nixon 1 informing us that United Utilities is dumping sewage in the lake. Why has this be sanctioned? Surely stopping this practice should be the first step, not killing geese? If the issue is pollution, let’s ‘cull’ all those disgusting people who drop litter in and around Lake Windermere. They are destroying the environment, encouraging vermin and endangering wildlife.
It seems to me, from the above comments, that the only real argument in favour of killing the Canada Geese (and let’s not use the word ‘culling’), is from the farmer who objects to the geese sharing his grass with his sheep and his boat! Is this a good enough reason for 200 killings?
Please think again!
STOP THE MURDER!
TwoHat
says...
11:11am Wed 8 Feb 12
henryalex
says...
1:43pm Wed 8 Feb 12
henryalex
says...
1:45pm Wed 8 Feb 12
TwoHat
says...
2:25pm Wed 8 Feb 12
MarionA
says...
2:27pm Wed 8 Feb 12
The company admits it intends to pump untreated, but diluted, sewage into the lake to alleviate flooding at the tourist information centre in Glebe Road, Bowness."
Who dumps raw sewage into a lake? http://www.thewestmo
rlandgazette.co.uk/n
ews/9111181.Raw_sewa
ge_will_not_affect_W
indermere_bathing_sp
ot__says_utility_fir
m/
MarionA
says...
2:39pm Wed 8 Feb 12
TwoHat wrote:I live in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. We have year round resident Canada geese here whose population has been managed nonlethally and effectively for 30 years with egg addling. Any community that has to resort to killing Canada geese is backwards and run by inept people who certainly shouldn't be trusted to kill a bunch of innocent birds.
HolisticH wrote:I wasn't joking, and what qualifies you to judge my intelligence? You are entitled to your opinion, and so are others. Calling those who disagree with you "idiots" doesn't make your opinion worth any more than theirs.
lakesman wrote:I am 100% AGAINST the cull of these beautiful birds. I feel utterly disgusted reading some of the above comments, idiotic jokes about shooting these geese and saving yourself a bit of cash before Christmas or referring to these birds as pests!! How can people be so flippant about such a serious issue! I have obviously been in contact with the RSPB to air my concerns and I urge others who are against the cull to contact them. As for the people who are supporting the cull of these precious birds, lets hope that the government never brings in a cull to deal with the over populated human race, id hate to hear your views on that!
its a shame this was nt done before christmas ,then they could of sold them for cristmas ,and made bit of much needed cash
It is also interesting they intend to kill nesting pairs while their own best practices document states: TIN009 - The management of problems caused by Canada geese: a guide to best practice (TIN009)
http://naturalenglan
d.etraderstores.com/
NaturalEnglandShop/T
IN009
It should also be noted that at long established breeding sites there may be a surplus of birds waiting to occupy breeding territories, but which moult elsewhere.
Thus, a cull of breeding birds may simply create vacant territories for other birds to move into and repeat culls may be necessary for a number of years before the problem is finally brought under control.
Culling of Canada Geese
This work is proposed to start in the spring of 2012. It is intended to cull up to 200 birds at this time and to monitor the effect of this work with a view to carrying out further culls over the next 5 years.
• Briefing note on management of Canada geese on Windermere (Word document)
......they are killing nesting pairs which will create a vacuum which will be replaced yearly by nesting pairs and the culls will continue until the geese will be exterminated. Why aren't they simply addling the eggs of the nesting pairs? They intent to kill nesters yearly is why.
MarionA
says...
2:47pm Wed 8 Feb 12
henryalex
says...
3:01pm Wed 8 Feb 12
save windermere geese
says...
3:15pm Wed 8 Feb 12
com/dj.pg.monkey?ref
=tn_tnmn#!/groups/17
9274398844878/182992
215139763/?notif_t=g
roup_activity
save windermere geese
says...
3:16pm Wed 8 Feb 12
com/dj.pg.monkey?ref
=tn_tnmn#!/groups/17
9274398844878/182992
215139763/?notif_t=g
roup_activity
save windermere geese
says...
3:26pm Wed 8 Feb 12
PieWoman
says...
9:19pm Wed 8 Feb 12
save windermere geese wrote:No I won't join your group.
plz all join save windermere canada ceese on facebook
I want to see the goose numbers reduced to a level which is sustainable and doesn't negatively impact on our native Lake District biodiversity.
Pie Woman
HolisticH
says...
9:23pm Wed 8 Feb 12
save windermere geese wrote:Done :)
plz all join save windermere canada ceese on facebook
henryalex
says...
9:32pm Wed 8 Feb 12
PieWoman
says...
12:14pm Thu 9 Feb 12
henryalex wrote:The question of sentience is a philosophical issue and not relevant in this argument - otherwise the argument broadens out to any form of killing by any species over any other, and brings into question vegitarianism, veganism, farming and even natural predation.
Pie Woman, Where do you get your information from? Where is your scientific evidence that the present population is unsustainable? When it is proved that the numbers are unsustainable there are humane methods of population control which have been utilised in England and throughout the world effectively. there is no need to kill to control. As explained in previous posts the notion of, 'native,' species is spurious. All species have been introduced from outside the area since the end of the last Ice Age. Canada Geese have been resident in England since the 1600s. There is no evidence that they pose a threat to any other species on Windermere. They are here, they are sentient creatures and it is totally unnecessary to kill them.
What is relevant here is that these geese are non-native and are having a detrimental impact on Windermere's biodiversity.
I am happy to take my scientific evidence from the expert groups who work on our behalf. They certainly have more credibility than most of the comments from individuals on this article.
Pie Woman
Beatrix Potter
says...
1:12pm Thu 9 Feb 12
PieWoman
says...
2:50pm Thu 9 Feb 12
Beatrix Potter wrote:Of course geese are sentient beings, I never said they weren't. And I agree with you that culling should be humane, I never said it shouldn't be.
Pie Woman, Canada Geese are sentient beings, as are we. That is fact, so how can it be a philosophical issue? If the numbers of Canada Geese must be reduced, and that is what's being debated here, please let it be carried out humanely, as described above by Lady Tilly Windermere. We wouldn't want someone coming into our homes and shooting our partner, ourself and any unborn offsprings. How can this be sanctioned for Canada Geese, when there are other ways of controlling their numbers?
I suggest you have another read of what I posted - and spend a bit longer thinking about it this time.
The quality of the debate on here is pitiful.
Pie Woman
henryalex
says...
3:06pm Thu 9 Feb 12
lakesailor
says...
11:27pm Thu 9 Feb 12
MarionA wrote:Sounds like you know a lot about the area. Huh
I did some research on Windermere Lake and see it is a huge tourist and holiday area. Animal lovers spending money on holidays would like to know what businesses in this area support the geese or support the killing of them so we can avoid these businesses or maybe we need to avoid Windermere Lake totally. I hope someone can do some canvassing of local businesses, hotels, etc and post this information on the Tripadvisor site for Windermere Lake businesses, hotels, etc. I wouldn't waste my money on anyone who supports killing Canada geese.
They are a nuisance and need controlling. Visitors like goose dung on their shoes a lot less than any worry about waterfowl welfare.
Animal lovers may not be the majority of visitors to the Lake District, unless they also leave tin cans and plastic bags full of rubbish over every hedge and in every verge.
The LDNPA could usefully get rid of a load of the gulls that mess all over boats as well, whilst they are on the job.
lakesdream
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1:01am Fri 10 Feb 12
lakesailor
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5:49pm Fri 17 Feb 12
lakesdream wrote:"Many residents think that boat users on Windermere need controlling. Diesel pollution of the Lake, noise pollution, stirring up sediments, plenty of litter and sewage from boats, fishing lines and weights discarded."
Many residents think that boat users on Windermere need controlling. Diesel pollution of the Lake, noise pollution, stirring up sediments, plenty of litter and sewage from boats, fishing lines and weights discarded. Don't blame birds they have as much right to be there as you and not causing as much damage to the environment. We have the privelege of living in the area and I consider the guardianship of it. Vistors have every right to enjoy it too. I agree that visitors need to be educated in conservation and should be penalised if they drop litter etc. but we all have to learn to co exist and that includes with the birds.
Any proof to go with these wild accusations?
Sewage is not discharged from boats. It is illegal.
Diesel? Where?
Noise? I sail regularly and the only noise I hear, strangely, is the geese.
Litter? How can you assume it is from boats?
Fishing line and weights? That's an angling issue, not a boating issue.
Tegan says...
8:37am Thu 2 Feb 12