Cull of 200 Canada geese planned in Lake District

First published in Bowness news The Westmorland Gazette: Photograph of the Author by , Senior Reporter

A SOUTH Lakeland conservationist has slammed a planned cull of Canada Geese on Windermere as ‘a total massacre’.

Clive Hartley hit out at the Lake District National Park Authority (LDNPA), which is considering killing around 200 of the birds this spring.

It follows complaints from landowners about geese eating grass and crops and there are also concerns their droppings affect water quality.

An LDNPA spokesman said it would be the first time it had carried out a cull but numbers had ‘reached a point where we have to take action’.

Mr Hartley, of Grange-over-Sands, resigned from the authority’s geese management group, saying he was ‘disgusted’ at the plans as they had ‘no scientific justification’.

“At that time of year, the geese are found in big flocks and are looking for protection from predators – you can walk up to them,” he said.

“It’s not a cull, it’s a slaughter as far as I’m concerned.”

The naturalist said Canada Geese numbers had ‘fluctuated’ over the years but had not ‘gone over the top’.

“From a wildlife point of view, I know Windermere as good as anybody,” he explained.

“I think, in the 21st Century, it’s a great pity and a sad reflection of our country that with issues to do with wildlife, the answer is to start killing them.

Related links

“It’s happening with badgers at the moment – where do you draw the line?”

Mr Hartley, who makes a monthly count of all waterbirds on Windermere, said there were around 661 Canada Geese on Windermere.

But LDNPA ranger Steve Tatlock said the number was around 1,200, which was why the cull had been proposed.

“Mr Hartley’s figures are based purely on land-based observations, whereas ours are carried out from a boat giving us a more complete survey and picture of overall numbers,” he said.

Mr Tatlock said the geese were a ‘non-native species’ and a cull would improve water quality, help with land management, address farming concerns and protect tourist activities.

“We understand that this is an emotive issue,” he said.

“If a cull does take place, it will be to the highest possible professional standards.”

Mr Hartley said the group had recommended increasing the cull from 200 to 600. But he said this ‘would be a total massacre, not a cull’.

The LDNPA said it would gather more scientific data about local movements of geese on lakes such as Windermere.

A spokesman for the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds (RSPB) said the group would not object to the ‘legal control of Canada Geese, so long as all non-lethal methods’ were considered and licence conditions were met.

Comments (88)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

8:37am Thu 2 Feb 12

Tegan says...

This is disgusting! These birds have been here longer then us and what harm are they doing to anyone!
This is disgusting! These birds have been here longer then us and what harm are they doing to anyone! Tegan
  • Score: 0

10:55am Thu 2 Feb 12

WilliamT says...

As someone with no special knowlege of this subject, I am going to side with the Park Authority and the cull. I know that they don't want to do it, but they think it's best. I think they're probably dreading it. If it was a bunch of gun toting nutters, it would be a different matter.
Hordes of animals being killed in slaughterhouses is not a delightful prospect either.
As someone with no special knowlege of this subject, I am going to side with the Park Authority and the cull. I know that they don't want to do it, but they think it's best. I think they're probably dreading it. If it was a bunch of gun toting nutters, it would be a different matter. Hordes of animals being killed in slaughterhouses is not a delightful prospect either. WilliamT
  • Score: 0

11:52am Thu 2 Feb 12

lakesailor says...

A sense of proportion is needed. I have a boat in a field which regularly has 300 geese eating the grass. (Yes we have counted them) apart from the dreadful mess they leave each 6 geese eats a sheep's worth of grass. That's 50 sheep that can't be grazed in that field making it redundant lakeside pasture.
They are noisy. It's alright living in Grange. You try living near them.
I don't know where Mr Hartley's figure of 661 geese comes from. The population varies all the time. We are just coming up to the period when you can't move for them. Yes they look very attractive in their huge floating lines of geese at dusk, but less birds would still be an attractive sight.
I wonder if Mr Hartley also bemoans the dearth of water voles but supports the re-introduction of otters which....erm....eat water voles? Or supports the animal hospitals which treat and release foxes!
Even the RSPB don't object to a cull.
It's a sensible solution to overpopulation. The cormorants were culled years ago and the present population is hardly intrusive.

It seems to me that naturalists and conservationists are generally one-issue campaigners.
The whole problem needs looking at from every point of view.
A sense of proportion is needed. I have a boat in a field which regularly has 300 geese eating the grass. (Yes we have counted them) apart from the dreadful mess they leave each 6 geese eats a sheep's worth of grass. That's 50 sheep that can't be grazed in that field making it redundant lakeside pasture. They are noisy. It's alright living in Grange. You try living near them. I don't know where Mr Hartley's figure of 661 geese comes from. The population varies all the time. We are just coming up to the period when you can't move for them. Yes they look very attractive in their huge floating lines of geese at dusk, but less birds would still be an attractive sight. I wonder if Mr Hartley also bemoans the dearth of water voles but supports the re-introduction of otters which....erm....eat water voles? Or supports the animal hospitals which treat and release foxes! Even the RSPB don't object to a cull. It's a sensible solution to overpopulation. The cormorants were culled years ago and the present population is hardly intrusive. It seems to me that naturalists and conservationists are generally one-issue campaigners. The whole problem needs looking at from every point of view. lakesailor
  • Score: 0

12:05pm Thu 2 Feb 12

Ben Berry says...

They are a pest that must be controlled.

100% in favour of the cull.

FYI its by painting eggs, and therefore aborting them, not shooting them(which defra will give you a licence for no problems due to being an alien pest).
They are a pest that must be controlled. 100% in favour of the cull. FYI its by painting eggs, and therefore aborting them, not shooting them(which defra will give you a licence for no problems due to being an alien pest). Ben Berry
  • Score: 0

12:21pm Thu 2 Feb 12

WilliamT says...

Painting eggs would hardly be a 'cull'. I understood that the bird pairs would be killed together on the nest to avoid unnecessary distress- this sounds to me as if they are doing their best to do a proper job.
Painting eggs would hardly be a 'cull'. I understood that the bird pairs would be killed together on the nest to avoid unnecessary distress- this sounds to me as if they are doing their best to do a proper job. WilliamT
  • Score: 0

1:37pm Thu 2 Feb 12

lakesman says...

its a shame this was nt done before christmas ,then they could of sold them for cristmas ,and made bit of much needed cash
its a shame this was nt done before christmas ,then they could of sold them for cristmas ,and made bit of much needed cash lakesman
  • Score: 0

2:38pm Thu 2 Feb 12

tictoc1 says...

Is this the last resort? Is there no other way of helping the problem?
Is this the last resort? Is there no other way of helping the problem? tictoc1
  • Score: 0

5:14pm Thu 2 Feb 12

lakesailor says...

Send me £10 and I will allow you to Adopt-a-Goose.
I'll keep an eye on it and tell you if it's OK (or dead).
I will do this for any number of adopters.
Send me £10 and I will allow you to Adopt-a-Goose. I'll keep an eye on it and tell you if it's OK (or dead). I will do this for any number of adopters. lakesailor
  • Score: 0

5:50pm Thu 2 Feb 12

TwoHat says...

Mmmm goose! I trust the harvested geese will be available for local consumption? Who "owns" them? Is it the landowner where they are shot, or the queen, or are the LDNPA claiming ownership? Is there anything to stop members of the public from taking one or two from the public land by the lake?
Mmmm goose! I trust the harvested geese will be available for local consumption? Who "owns" them? Is it the landowner where they are shot, or the queen, or are the LDNPA claiming ownership? Is there anything to stop members of the public from taking one or two from the public land by the lake? TwoHat
  • Score: 0

7:23pm Thu 2 Feb 12

life cycle too says...

Quote:
Mr Tatlock said the geese were a ‘non-native species’ and a cull would improve water quality, help with land management, address farming concerns and protect tourist activities.

Are Canada Geese exclusively the cause of poor water quality?
Not swans, or ducks?
Are tourists put off by geese but not other birds?

Keep it REAL.
The reason that they are not wanted, is that farmers are losing out to nature!
If there is so much poop, then they should be collecting it and selling it as fertiliser.
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Guano

What is needed are a few more foxes...!
Quote: Mr Tatlock said the geese were a ‘non-native species’ and a cull would improve water quality, help with land management, address farming concerns and protect tourist activities. Are Canada Geese exclusively the cause of poor water quality? Not swans, or ducks? Are tourists put off by geese but not other birds? Keep it REAL. The reason that they are not wanted, is that farmers are losing out to nature! If there is so much poop, then they should be collecting it and selling it as fertiliser. http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Guano What is needed are a few more foxes...! life cycle too
  • Score: 0

7:53pm Thu 2 Feb 12

zaney5 says...

Tegan wrote:
This is disgusting! These birds have been here longer then us and what harm are they doing to anyone!
Amen to that. This is absolutely horrendous.
If you want to cull pests may I suggest you start with Steve Tatlock and his LDNPA cronies.
[quote][p][bold]Tegan[/bold] wrote: This is disgusting! These birds have been here longer then us and what harm are they doing to anyone![/p][/quote]Amen to that. This is absolutely horrendous. If you want to cull pests may I suggest you start with Steve Tatlock and his LDNPA cronies. zaney5
  • Score: 0

11:41am Fri 3 Feb 12

tunst48 says...

I think this is terrible, culling these birds will not solve the problem long term, another solution should be gained, (provide them with another home) after all we don't cull humans because they are a pest to society do we!!
I think this is terrible, culling these birds will not solve the problem long term, another solution should be gained, (provide them with another home) after all we don't cull humans because they are a pest to society do we!! tunst48
  • Score: 0

12:17pm Fri 3 Feb 12

TwoHat says...

"after all we don't cull humans because they are a pest to society do we!!"

More's the pity!!
"after all we don't cull humans because they are a pest to society do we!!" More's the pity!! TwoHat
  • Score: 0

12:20pm Fri 3 Feb 12

tictoc1 says...

tunst48 wrote:
I think this is terrible, culling these birds will not solve the problem long term, another solution should be gained, (provide them with another home) after all we don't cull humans because they are a pest to society do we!!
I couldn't agree more! I'll get laughed at for this but, couldn't we introduce another type of bird or animal (for a period of time) that would drive these geese away? That way it would be sort of like nature taking control of the problem? Just a thought?
[quote][p][bold]tunst48[/bold] wrote: I think this is terrible, culling these birds will not solve the problem long term, another solution should be gained, (provide them with another home) after all we don't cull humans because they are a pest to society do we!![/p][/quote]I couldn't agree more! I'll get laughed at for this but, couldn't we introduce another type of bird or animal (for a period of time) that would drive these geese away? That way it would be sort of like nature taking control of the problem? Just a thought? tictoc1
  • Score: 0

12:30pm Fri 3 Feb 12

TwoHat says...

tictoc1 wrote:
tunst48 wrote:
I think this is terrible, culling these birds will not solve the problem long term, another solution should be gained, (provide them with another home) after all we don't cull humans because they are a pest to society do we!!
I couldn't agree more! I'll get laughed at for this but, couldn't we introduce another type of bird or animal (for a period of time) that would drive these geese away? That way it would be sort of like nature taking control of the problem? Just a thought?
Good idea! How about that big cat that people keep spotting? That ought to do the trick! On the same lines, its a bit of a surprise that Bownessie hasn't surfaced to scoff a few dozen of them, isn't it?
[quote][p][bold]tictoc1[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tunst48[/bold] wrote: I think this is terrible, culling these birds will not solve the problem long term, another solution should be gained, (provide them with another home) after all we don't cull humans because they are a pest to society do we!![/p][/quote]I couldn't agree more! I'll get laughed at for this but, couldn't we introduce another type of bird or animal (for a period of time) that would drive these geese away? That way it would be sort of like nature taking control of the problem? Just a thought?[/p][/quote]Good idea! How about that big cat that people keep spotting? That ought to do the trick! On the same lines, its a bit of a surprise that Bownessie hasn't surfaced to scoff a few dozen of them, isn't it? TwoHat
  • Score: 0

12:53pm Fri 3 Feb 12

life cycle too says...

The farmers who want this cull were not so keen when foot and mouth led to the cull of THEIR animals....
The farmers who want this cull were not so keen when foot and mouth led to the cull of THEIR animals.... life cycle too
  • Score: 0

2:32pm Fri 3 Feb 12

B.Pedreaper says...

Cull 500 Canada geese, 50 swans from Bowness and 20 swans from Waterhead; afterall, it's our drinking water they are pollution. There have not been so many of either species on Windermere in living memory.
Cull 500 Canada geese, 50 swans from Bowness and 20 swans from Waterhead; afterall, it's our drinking water they are pollution. There have not been so many of either species on Windermere in living memory. B.Pedreaper
  • Score: 0

7:04pm Fri 3 Feb 12

PieWoman says...

This decision will not have been taken lightly. The National Park Authority may be the ones taking the action, but it is a view shared by many different organisations including Natural England and the RSPB. Stop being so reactionary and think about the bigger picture. Nature needs balance.

Pie Woman
p.s. zaney5 - you should be ashamed of yourself!
This decision will not have been taken lightly. The National Park Authority may be the ones taking the action, but it is a view shared by many different organisations including Natural England and the RSPB. Stop being so reactionary and think about the bigger picture. Nature needs balance. Pie Woman p.s. zaney5 - you should be ashamed of yourself! PieWoman
  • Score: 0

8:39pm Fri 3 Feb 12

tictoc1 says...

"Nature needs balance."?!!! Then let mature take it's own course!
"Nature needs balance."?!!! Then let mature take it's own course! tictoc1
  • Score: 0

9:06pm Fri 3 Feb 12

Soren says...

tictoc1 wrote:
"Nature needs balance."?!!! Then let mature take it's own course!
In which case, there are probably six billion too many of us for nature to cope with. Who's going to start the cull?
[quote][p][bold]tictoc1[/bold] wrote: "Nature needs balance."?!!! Then let mature take it's own course![/p][/quote]In which case, there are probably six billion too many of us for nature to cope with. Who's going to start the cull? Soren
  • Score: 0

9:57pm Fri 3 Feb 12

zaney5 says...

PieWoman wrote:
This decision will not have been taken lightly. The National Park Authority may be the ones taking the action, but it is a view shared by many different organisations including Natural England and the RSPB. Stop being so reactionary and think about the bigger picture. Nature needs balance.

Pie Woman
p.s. zaney5 - you should be ashamed of yourself!
Why?
[quote][p][bold]PieWoman[/bold] wrote: This decision will not have been taken lightly. The National Park Authority may be the ones taking the action, but it is a view shared by many different organisations including Natural England and the RSPB. Stop being so reactionary and think about the bigger picture. Nature needs balance. Pie Woman p.s. zaney5 - you should be ashamed of yourself![/p][/quote]Why? zaney5
  • Score: 0

10:26pm Fri 3 Feb 12

AmeliaJane says...

I think this cull is disgusting especially the fact due to the nature of the birds that they mate for life, so they are going to be culled both the male and the female whilst on the nest!...Surely there is another way to solve the problem from both sides? Could the birds not be caught and transported to Marten Mere Wildfowl trust near Southport which isn't too far away?
I think this cull is disgusting especially the fact due to the nature of the birds that they mate for life, so they are going to be culled both the male and the female whilst on the nest!...Surely there is another way to solve the problem from both sides? Could the birds not be caught and transported to Marten Mere Wildfowl trust near Southport which isn't too far away? AmeliaJane
  • Score: 0

10:47pm Fri 3 Feb 12

PieWoman says...

tictoc1 wrote:
"Nature needs balance."?!!! Then let mature take it's own course!
OK, the geese might look cute, but their number is artificially high. We suffer the same problem with duck-feeding resulting in duckponds being so foul, too many pigeons and rats in city centres feeding off food waste etc. Human impact on all these habitats has affected the ecosystem and caused an overpopulation by one particular species.

Do you want a Windermere with poor water quality causing a loss of habitat for other aquatic species and a loss of amenity for humans? I don't.

Pie Woman

zaney5 - think about it for a while.
[quote][p][bold]tictoc1[/bold] wrote: "Nature needs balance."?!!! Then let mature take it's own course![/p][/quote]OK, the geese might look cute, but their number is artificially high. We suffer the same problem with duck-feeding resulting in duckponds being so foul, too many pigeons and rats in city centres feeding off food waste etc. Human impact on all these habitats has affected the ecosystem and caused an overpopulation by one particular species. Do you want a Windermere with poor water quality causing a loss of habitat for other aquatic species and a loss of amenity for humans? I don't. Pie Woman zaney5 - think about it for a while. PieWoman
  • Score: 0

11:53pm Fri 3 Feb 12

life cycle too says...

zaney5 wrote:
PieWoman wrote:
This decision will not have been taken lightly. The National Park Authority may be the ones taking the action, but it is a view shared by many different organisations including Natural England and the RSPB. Stop being so reactionary and think about the bigger picture. Nature needs balance.

Pie Woman
p.s. zaney5 - you should be ashamed of yourself!
Why?
I guess it was your suggestion that Steve Tatlock should be culled?
[quote][p][bold]zaney5[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PieWoman[/bold] wrote: This decision will not have been taken lightly. The National Park Authority may be the ones taking the action, but it is a view shared by many different organisations including Natural England and the RSPB. Stop being so reactionary and think about the bigger picture. Nature needs balance. Pie Woman p.s. zaney5 - you should be ashamed of yourself![/p][/quote]Why?[/p][/quote]I guess it was your suggestion that Steve Tatlock should be culled? life cycle too
  • Score: 0

12:30am Sat 4 Feb 12

life cycle too says...

PieWoman wrote:
This decision will not have been taken lightly. The National Park Authority may be the ones taking the action, but it is a view shared by many different organisations including Natural England and the RSPB. Stop being so reactionary and think about the bigger picture. Nature needs balance.

Pie Woman
p.s. zaney5 - you should be ashamed of yourself!
Weren't Natural England the ones who denied that sheep could be damaging flora near Mark Weir's Via Ferrata - yet he filmed the sheep eating the plants?

While they have the best interests at heart, they do seem to slip up in the practicality department.

Nature DOES need balance - and it is man's upsetting of the balance that has brought the geese here.
Is shooting them the best that they can do to restore the balance?
[quote][p][bold]PieWoman[/bold] wrote: This decision will not have been taken lightly. The National Park Authority may be the ones taking the action, but it is a view shared by many different organisations including Natural England and the RSPB. Stop being so reactionary and think about the bigger picture. Nature needs balance. Pie Woman p.s. zaney5 - you should be ashamed of yourself![/p][/quote]Weren't Natural England the ones who denied that sheep could be damaging flora near Mark Weir's Via Ferrata - yet he filmed the sheep eating the plants? While they have the best interests at heart, they do seem to slip up in the practicality department. Nature DOES need balance - and it is man's upsetting of the balance that has brought the geese here. Is shooting them the best that they can do to restore the balance? life cycle too
  • Score: 0

8:53am Sat 4 Feb 12

zaney5 says...

life cycle too wrote:
zaney5 wrote:
PieWoman wrote:
This decision will not have been taken lightly. The National Park Authority may be the ones taking the action, but it is a view shared by many different organisations including Natural England and the RSPB. Stop being so reactionary and think about the bigger picture. Nature needs balance.

Pie Woman
p.s. zaney5 - you should be ashamed of yourself!
Why?
I guess it was your suggestion that Steve Tatlock should be culled?
But killing a whole load of innocent wildlife is ok?
Jeez people get a grip. At least I was talking with my tongue firmly stuck in my cheek. Unlike Mr Tatlock.
[quote][p][bold]life cycle too[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]zaney5[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]PieWoman[/bold] wrote: This decision will not have been taken lightly. The National Park Authority may be the ones taking the action, but it is a view shared by many different organisations including Natural England and the RSPB. Stop being so reactionary and think about the bigger picture. Nature needs balance. Pie Woman p.s. zaney5 - you should be ashamed of yourself![/p][/quote]Why?[/p][/quote]I guess it was your suggestion that Steve Tatlock should be culled?[/p][/quote]But killing a whole load of innocent wildlife is ok? Jeez people get a grip. At least I was talking with my tongue firmly stuck in my cheek. Unlike Mr Tatlock. zaney5
  • Score: 0

10:04am Sat 4 Feb 12

life cycle too says...

Unless the CAUSE of so many birds coming to or breeding on and around Windermere is addressed, the problem is simply going to come back... so why do Natural England and the Park Authority get together and think about this some more?

And why did oiling the eggs not work? It has worked elsewhere!
Unless the CAUSE of so many birds coming to or breeding on and around Windermere is addressed, the problem is simply going to come back... so why do Natural England and the Park Authority get together and think about this some more? And why did oiling the eggs not work? It has worked elsewhere! life cycle too
  • Score: 0

10:13am Sat 4 Feb 12

brokenbanjo says...

You have a non-native species that unlike all other native geese, are here all year round. Similar geese, such as the barnacle and brent migrate north for the summer. These birds should not be here as they were introduced, much in the way that the grey squirrel should not be here. Now personally, I would get rid of the lot from the lake. They are a problem created by people. There is nothing natural about canada geese in the UK.

Natural England did not deny that sheep were eating plants in the Honister area, the reason why the Lake District is covered in bracken or grass and hardly any heather is because of sheep. Where the Via Ferrata was, there was increased footfall that damaged the site. Hence the successful conviction of the Slate Mine. It's amazing how the production of a TV programme can distort the truth. Lifecycle, have you ever tried contacting Natural England about the issues covered in the programme? I bet not, much better to fire il-informed statements from your ivory tower!
You have a non-native species that unlike all other native geese, are here all year round. Similar geese, such as the barnacle and brent migrate north for the summer. These birds [canada geese] should not be here as they were introduced, much in the way that the grey squirrel should not be here. Now personally, I would get rid of the lot from the lake. They are a problem created by people. There is nothing natural about canada geese in the UK. Natural England did not deny that sheep were eating plants in the Honister area, the reason why the Lake District is covered in bracken or grass and hardly any heather is because of sheep. Where the Via Ferrata was, there was increased footfall that damaged the site. Hence the successful conviction of the Slate Mine. It's amazing how the production of a TV programme can distort the truth. Lifecycle, have you ever tried contacting Natural England about the issues covered in the programme? I bet not, much better to fire il-informed statements from your ivory tower! brokenbanjo
  • Score: 0

1:26pm Sat 4 Feb 12

Chickp66 says...

I just love the way that 'man's' answer to everything animal related is 'cull it' there are too many of a certain species, ok let's cull it!!!! There are far too many humans on the planet we are the biggest polluters ever... I don't see anyone saying let's cull some humans!!! Leave the geese alone I say.
I just love the way that 'man's' answer to everything animal related is 'cull it' there are too many of a certain species, ok let's cull it!!!! There are far too many humans on the planet we are the biggest polluters ever... I don't see anyone saying let's cull some humans!!! Leave the geese alone I say. Chickp66
  • Score: 0

1:41pm Sat 4 Feb 12

Chickp66 says...

Oh and by the way farmers, please can you not let your cows and sheep poo in the fields please...i mean if we are talking about animals making a mess come on...your animals are just as guilty, i don't see anyone complaining about that though!
Oh and by the way farmers, please can you not let your cows and sheep poo in the fields please...i mean if we are talking about animals making a mess come on...your animals are just as guilty, i don't see anyone complaining about that though! Chickp66
  • Score: 0

1:47pm Sat 4 Feb 12

Chickp66 says...

Oh and while we're on the subject of geese polluting the water quality, what about all the pollution from boats, or has nobody noticed the oily sheen on the water surface...come on it's just a bit of bird poo...get real!!
Oh and while we're on the subject of geese polluting the water quality, what about all the pollution from boats, or has nobody noticed the oily sheen on the water surface...come on it's just a bit of bird poo...get real!! Chickp66
  • Score: 0

7:11pm Sat 4 Feb 12

lakesailor says...

"Being real" is accepting that this is how the real world works.
We are dominant.
There are too many geese.

The geese get the chop.
"Being real" is accepting that this is how the real world works. We are dominant. There are too many geese. The geese get the chop. lakesailor
  • Score: 0

7:57pm Sat 4 Feb 12

Pringle1982 says...

Blimey, if we get rid of all the non-native animals we'll have hardly any left.

And Humans were the ones to introduce most of the non-natives anyway!

"We are dominant" and what a **** shame that is for this planet.
Blimey, if we get rid of all the non-native animals we'll have hardly any left. And Humans were the ones to introduce most of the non-natives anyway! "We are dominant" and what a **** shame that is for this planet. Pringle1982
  • Score: 0

9:20pm Sat 4 Feb 12

HolisticH says...

lakesman wrote:
its a shame this was nt done before christmas ,then they could of sold them for cristmas ,and made bit of much needed cash
I am 100% AGAINST the cull of these beautiful birds. I feel utterly disgusted reading some of the above comments, idiotic jokes about shooting these geese and saving yourself a bit of cash before Christmas or referring to these birds as pests!! How can people be so flippant about such a serious issue! I have obviously been in contact with the RSPB to air my concerns and I urge others who are against the cull to contact them. As for the people who are supporting the cull of these precious birds, lets hope that the government never brings in a cull to deal with the over populated human race, id hate to hear your views on that!
[quote][p][bold]lakesman[/bold] wrote: its a shame this was nt done before christmas ,then they could of sold them for cristmas ,and made bit of much needed cash[/p][/quote]I am 100% AGAINST the cull of these beautiful birds. I feel utterly disgusted reading some of the above comments, idiotic jokes about shooting these geese and saving yourself a bit of cash before Christmas or referring to these birds as pests!! How can people be so flippant about such a serious issue! I have obviously been in contact with the RSPB to air my concerns and I urge others who are against the cull to contact them. As for the people who are supporting the cull of these precious birds, lets hope that the government never brings in a cull to deal with the over populated human race, id hate to hear your views on that! HolisticH
  • Score: 0

11:08am Sun 5 Feb 12

TwoHat says...

HolisticH wrote:
lakesman wrote:
its a shame this was nt done before christmas ,then they could of sold them for cristmas ,and made bit of much needed cash
I am 100% AGAINST the cull of these beautiful birds. I feel utterly disgusted reading some of the above comments, idiotic jokes about shooting these geese and saving yourself a bit of cash before Christmas or referring to these birds as pests!! How can people be so flippant about such a serious issue! I have obviously been in contact with the RSPB to air my concerns and I urge others who are against the cull to contact them. As for the people who are supporting the cull of these precious birds, lets hope that the government never brings in a cull to deal with the over populated human race, id hate to hear your views on that!
I wasn't joking, and what qualifies you to judge my intelligence? You are entitled to your opinion, and so are others. Calling those who disagree with you "idiots" doesn't make your opinion worth any more than theirs.
[quote][p][bold]HolisticH[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]lakesman[/bold] wrote: its a shame this was nt done before christmas ,then they could of sold them for cristmas ,and made bit of much needed cash[/p][/quote]I am 100% AGAINST the cull of these beautiful birds. I feel utterly disgusted reading some of the above comments, idiotic jokes about shooting these geese and saving yourself a bit of cash before Christmas or referring to these birds as pests!! How can people be so flippant about such a serious issue! I have obviously been in contact with the RSPB to air my concerns and I urge others who are against the cull to contact them. As for the people who are supporting the cull of these precious birds, lets hope that the government never brings in a cull to deal with the over populated human race, id hate to hear your views on that![/p][/quote]I wasn't joking, and what qualifies you to judge my intelligence? You are entitled to your opinion, and so are others. Calling those who disagree with you "idiots" doesn't make your opinion worth any more than theirs. TwoHat
  • Score: 0

11:42am Sun 5 Feb 12

HolisticH says...

TwoHat wrote:
HolisticH wrote:
lakesman wrote:
its a shame this was nt done before christmas ,then they could of sold them for cristmas ,and made bit of much needed cash
I am 100% AGAINST the cull of these beautiful birds. I feel utterly disgusted reading some of the above comments, idiotic jokes about shooting these geese and saving yourself a bit of cash before Christmas or referring to these birds as pests!! How can people be so flippant about such a serious issue! I have obviously been in contact with the RSPB to air my concerns and I urge others who are against the cull to contact them. As for the people who are supporting the cull of these precious birds, lets hope that the government never brings in a cull to deal with the over populated human race, id hate to hear your views on that!
I wasn't joking, and what qualifies you to judge my intelligence? You are entitled to your opinion, and so are others. Calling those who disagree with you "idiots" doesn't make your opinion worth any more than theirs.
"I wasn't joking, and what qualifies you to judge my intelligence? You are entitled to your opinion, and so are others. Calling those who disagree with you "idiots" doesn't make your opinion worth any more than theirs"

Off course it doesn't, I'm not measuring people's intelligence, I'm measuring how cruel and narrow minded people are!
I am here to share my comments on the dire situation with the Canada Geese, which I have done, I'm not interested in anything else (that means you or you intelligence!).
[quote][p][bold]TwoHat[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HolisticH[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]lakesman[/bold] wrote: its a shame this was nt done before christmas ,then they could of sold them for cristmas ,and made bit of much needed cash[/p][/quote]I am 100% AGAINST the cull of these beautiful birds. I feel utterly disgusted reading some of the above comments, idiotic jokes about shooting these geese and saving yourself a bit of cash before Christmas or referring to these birds as pests!! How can people be so flippant about such a serious issue! I have obviously been in contact with the RSPB to air my concerns and I urge others who are against the cull to contact them. As for the people who are supporting the cull of these precious birds, lets hope that the government never brings in a cull to deal with the over populated human race, id hate to hear your views on that![/p][/quote]I wasn't joking, and what qualifies you to judge my intelligence? You are entitled to your opinion, and so are others. Calling those who disagree with you "idiots" doesn't make your opinion worth any more than theirs.[/p][/quote]"I wasn't joking, and what qualifies you to judge my intelligence? You are entitled to your opinion, and so are others. Calling those who disagree with you "idiots" doesn't make your opinion worth any more than theirs" Off course it doesn't, I'm not measuring people's intelligence, I'm measuring how cruel and narrow minded people are! I am here to share my comments on the dire situation with the Canada Geese, which I have done, I'm not interested in anything else (that means you or you intelligence!). HolisticH
  • Score: 0

11:42am Sun 5 Feb 12

HolisticH says...

TwoHat wrote:
HolisticH wrote:
lakesman wrote:
its a shame this was nt done before christmas ,then they could of sold them for cristmas ,and made bit of much needed cash
I am 100% AGAINST the cull of these beautiful birds. I feel utterly disgusted reading some of the above comments, idiotic jokes about shooting these geese and saving yourself a bit of cash before Christmas or referring to these birds as pests!! How can people be so flippant about such a serious issue! I have obviously been in contact with the RSPB to air my concerns and I urge others who are against the cull to contact them. As for the people who are supporting the cull of these precious birds, lets hope that the government never brings in a cull to deal with the over populated human race, id hate to hear your views on that!
I wasn't joking, and what qualifies you to judge my intelligence? You are entitled to your opinion, and so are others. Calling those who disagree with you "idiots" doesn't make your opinion worth any more than theirs.
"I wasn't joking, and what qualifies you to judge my intelligence? You are entitled to your opinion, and so are others. Calling those who disagree with you "idiots" doesn't make your opinion worth any more than theirs"

Off course it doesn't, I'm not measuring people's intelligence, I'm measuring how cruel and narrow minded people are!
I am here to share my comments on the dire situation with the Canada Geese, which I have done, I'm not interested in anything else (that means you or you intelligence!).
[quote][p][bold]TwoHat[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HolisticH[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]lakesman[/bold] wrote: its a shame this was nt done before christmas ,then they could of sold them for cristmas ,and made bit of much needed cash[/p][/quote]I am 100% AGAINST the cull of these beautiful birds. I feel utterly disgusted reading some of the above comments, idiotic jokes about shooting these geese and saving yourself a bit of cash before Christmas or referring to these birds as pests!! How can people be so flippant about such a serious issue! I have obviously been in contact with the RSPB to air my concerns and I urge others who are against the cull to contact them. As for the people who are supporting the cull of these precious birds, lets hope that the government never brings in a cull to deal with the over populated human race, id hate to hear your views on that![/p][/quote]I wasn't joking, and what qualifies you to judge my intelligence? You are entitled to your opinion, and so are others. Calling those who disagree with you "idiots" doesn't make your opinion worth any more than theirs.[/p][/quote]"I wasn't joking, and what qualifies you to judge my intelligence? You are entitled to your opinion, and so are others. Calling those who disagree with you "idiots" doesn't make your opinion worth any more than theirs" Off course it doesn't, I'm not measuring people's intelligence, I'm measuring how cruel and narrow minded people are! I am here to share my comments on the dire situation with the Canada Geese, which I have done, I'm not interested in anything else (that means you or you intelligence!). HolisticH
  • Score: 0

12:38pm Sun 5 Feb 12

brokenbanjo says...

American mink, grey squirrel, muntjac deer, fallow deer, sika deer, Canada geese,... All species introduced by man and have had negative effects on habitats and native species in this Country. The IUCN state that non-native species are one of the top three greatest causes of extinction. Because they are cuddly, people get swayed by the semantics of the situation. The RSPB actively 'control' Canada geese on their reserves as they understand the negative effects they have on the habitats and other species present.

Now we look at plants and everyone seems to understand and accept that Japanese knotweed, Himalayan balsam and rhododendron needs removing from habitats, but there is never any uproar about that.

Non-native species are a menace humans created and it is only right that humans fix said menace. Yes Canada geese are lovely but they should be controlled.
American mink, grey squirrel, muntjac deer, fallow deer, sika deer, Canada geese,... All species introduced by man and have had negative effects on habitats and native species in this Country. The IUCN state that non-native species are one of the top three greatest causes of extinction. Because they are cuddly, people get swayed by the semantics of the situation. The RSPB actively 'control' Canada geese on their reserves as they understand the negative effects they have on the habitats and other species present. Now we look at plants and everyone seems to understand and accept that Japanese knotweed, Himalayan balsam and rhododendron needs removing from habitats, but there is never any uproar about that. Non-native species are a menace humans created and it is only right that humans fix said menace. Yes Canada geese are lovely but they should be controlled. brokenbanjo
  • Score: 0

12:38pm Sun 5 Feb 12

brokenbanjo says...

American mink, grey squirrel, muntjac deer, fallow deer, sika deer, Canada geese,... All species introduced by man and have had negative effects on habitats and native species in this Country. The IUCN state that non-native species are one of the top three greatest causes of extinction. Because they are cuddly, people get swayed by the semantics of the situation. The RSPB actively 'control' Canada geese on their reserves as they understand the negative effects they have on the habitats and other species present.

Now we look at plants and everyone seems to understand and accept that Japanese knotweed, Himalayan balsam and rhododendron needs removing from habitats, but there is never any uproar about that.

Non-native species are a menace humans created and it is only right that humans fix said menace. Yes Canada geese are lovely but they should be controlled.
American mink, grey squirrel, muntjac deer, fallow deer, sika deer, Canada geese,... All species introduced by man and have had negative effects on habitats and native species in this Country. The IUCN state that non-native species are one of the top three greatest causes of extinction. Because they are cuddly, people get swayed by the semantics of the situation. The RSPB actively 'control' Canada geese on their reserves as they understand the negative effects they have on the habitats and other species present. Now we look at plants and everyone seems to understand and accept that Japanese knotweed, Himalayan balsam and rhododendron needs removing from habitats, but there is never any uproar about that. Non-native species are a menace humans created and it is only right that humans fix said menace. Yes Canada geese are lovely but they should be controlled. brokenbanjo
  • Score: 0

2:33pm Sun 5 Feb 12

henryalex says...

I am disgusted with the RSPB I am a member as I thought that they protect birds not kill them. I am cancelling my membership. This argument about non native species is fallacious, when does a species qualify as native? Same argument used by racists. The Lake District was covered by ice on and off for 2 million years, 12,00 years ago since the ice melted so all people, plants animals and birds are newcomers to Geologists like myself. The birds are here, they are wonderful living creatures, we should not be destroying them. This is also ruining the reputation of the Lake District so not a great commercial strategy for the LDNPA.
I am disgusted with the RSPB I am a member as I thought that they protect birds not kill them. I am cancelling my membership. This argument about non native species is fallacious, when does a species qualify as native? Same argument used by racists. The Lake District was covered by ice on and off for 2 million years, 12,00 years ago since the ice melted so all people, plants animals and birds are newcomers to Geologists like myself. The birds are here, they are wonderful living creatures, we should not be destroying them. This is also ruining the reputation of the Lake District so not a great commercial strategy for the LDNPA. henryalex
  • Score: 0

3:06pm Sun 5 Feb 12

TwoHat says...

Let's introduce another non-native species in that case, how about a predator to deal with the geese? That way we aren't culling them, and the animal rights nutters won't mind? Wolves would be good, or mountain lions maybe.
Surely the geese are a man-made problem, and it is up to man to fix the problem, one way or another, before the balance of nature is shifted even further.
Let's introduce another non-native species in that case, how about a predator to deal with the geese? That way we aren't culling them, and the animal rights nutters won't mind? Wolves would be good, or mountain lions maybe. Surely the geese are a man-made problem, and it is up to man to fix the problem, one way or another, before the balance of nature is shifted even further. TwoHat
  • Score: 0

5:28pm Sun 5 Feb 12

HolisticH says...

TwoHat wrote:
Let's introduce another non-native species in that case, how about a predator to deal with the geese? That way we aren't culling them, and the animal rights nutters won't mind? Wolves would be good, or mountain lions maybe.
Surely the geese are a man-made problem, and it is up to man to fix the problem, one way or another, before the balance of nature is shifted even further.
Man-made problem?? you must think very highly of "man" to even consider any involvement in creating such beautiful animals! We should be finding ways of helping these creatures instead of finding ways to harm them!! I'm shocked at the so called human race, aren't we meant to be the evolved and civil ones! Instead all we do is harm each other and any creatures that fall in to our path.
[quote][p][bold]TwoHat[/bold] wrote: Let's introduce another non-native species in that case, how about a predator to deal with the geese? That way we aren't culling them, and the animal rights nutters won't mind? Wolves would be good, or mountain lions maybe. Surely the geese are a man-made problem, and it is up to man to fix the problem, one way or another, before the balance of nature is shifted even further.[/p][/quote]Man-made problem?? you must think very highly of "man" to even consider any involvement in creating such beautiful animals! We should be finding ways of helping these creatures instead of finding ways to harm them!! I'm shocked at the so called human race, aren't we meant to be the evolved and civil ones! Instead all we do is harm each other and any creatures that fall in to our path. HolisticH
  • Score: 0

5:33pm Sun 5 Feb 12

zaney5 says...

So we have non native animals that deserve to be killed because they don't belong in these parts. What a good job we don't do the same with humans, what with half of Eastern Europe in the locality.
So we have non native animals that deserve to be killed because they don't belong in these parts. What a good job we don't do the same with humans, what with half of Eastern Europe in the locality. zaney5
  • Score: 0

5:37pm Sun 5 Feb 12

brokenbanjo says...

henryalex wrote:
I am disgusted with the RSPB I am a member as I thought that they protect birds not kill them. I am cancelling my membership. This argument about non native species is fallacious, when does a species qualify as native? Same argument used by racists. The Lake District was covered by ice on and off for 2 million years, 12,00 years ago since the ice melted so all people, plants animals and birds are newcomers to Geologists like myself. The birds are here, they are wonderful living creatures, we should not be destroying them. This is also ruining the reputation of the Lake District so not a great commercial strategy for the LDNPA.
Ye sit was covered by ice, that is an irrefutable fact. However, a native species is one that made it to a particular place under it's own steam Not chucked on a ship in the 1800s because someone with more money than sense decided they would look pretty in their garden.

As a Geologist I would expect you to have some kind of scientific reasoning behind you. Try reading some of the reports by the IUCN and see the menace that introduced species present to native species.

The RSPB are merely looking at the bigger picture when it comes to the control of some species. ALL conservation organisations have to make tough decisions about particular species, especially cute and cuddly non-natives.

To imply that I am a racist is to describe nature anthropogenically and essentially highlights your limited understanding on the subject.
[quote][p][bold]henryalex[/bold] wrote: I am disgusted with the RSPB I am a member as I thought that they protect birds not kill them. I am cancelling my membership. This argument about non native species is fallacious, when does a species qualify as native? Same argument used by racists. The Lake District was covered by ice on and off for 2 million years, 12,00 years ago since the ice melted so all people, plants animals and birds are newcomers to Geologists like myself. The birds are here, they are wonderful living creatures, we should not be destroying them. This is also ruining the reputation of the Lake District so not a great commercial strategy for the LDNPA.[/p][/quote]Ye sit was covered by ice, that is an irrefutable fact. However, a native species is one that made it to a particular place under it's own steam Not chucked on a ship in the 1800s because someone with more money than sense decided they would look pretty in their garden. As a Geologist I would expect you to have some kind of scientific reasoning behind you. Try reading some of the reports by the IUCN and see the menace that introduced species present to native species. The RSPB are merely looking at the bigger picture when it comes to the control of some species. ALL conservation organisations have to make tough decisions about particular species, especially cute and cuddly non-natives. To imply that I am a racist is to describe nature anthropogenically and essentially highlights your limited understanding on the subject. brokenbanjo
  • Score: 0

5:42pm Sun 5 Feb 12

brokenbanjo says...

HolisticH wrote:
TwoHat wrote:
Let's introduce another non-native species in that case, how about a predator to deal with the geese? That way we aren't culling them, and the animal rights nutters won't mind? Wolves would be good, or mountain lions maybe.
Surely the geese are a man-made problem, and it is up to man to fix the problem, one way or another, before the balance of nature is shifted even further.
Man-made problem?? you must think very highly of "man" to even consider any involvement in creating such beautiful animals! We should be finding ways of helping these creatures instead of finding ways to harm them!! I'm shocked at the so called human race, aren't we meant to be the evolved and civil ones! Instead all we do is harm each other and any creatures that fall in to our path.
The importation of Canada geese in to the Lake District IS a man-made problem. The hint is in the name of them...

Plus Canada geese were never created, they evolved from a common ancestor of the brent and barnacle goose, hence the 'Branta' scientific nomenclature.
[quote][p][bold]HolisticH[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TwoHat[/bold] wrote: Let's introduce another non-native species in that case, how about a predator to deal with the geese? That way we aren't culling them, and the animal rights nutters won't mind? Wolves would be good, or mountain lions maybe. Surely the geese are a man-made problem, and it is up to man to fix the problem, one way or another, before the balance of nature is shifted even further.[/p][/quote]Man-made problem?? you must think very highly of "man" to even consider any involvement in creating such beautiful animals! We should be finding ways of helping these creatures instead of finding ways to harm them!! I'm shocked at the so called human race, aren't we meant to be the evolved and civil ones! Instead all we do is harm each other and any creatures that fall in to our path.[/p][/quote]The importation of Canada geese in to the Lake District IS a man-made problem. The hint is in the name of them... Plus Canada geese were never created, they evolved from a common ancestor of the brent and barnacle goose, hence the 'Branta' scientific nomenclature. brokenbanjo
  • Score: 0

8:15pm Sun 5 Feb 12

life cycle too says...

brokenbanjo wrote:
American mink, grey squirrel, muntjac deer, fallow deer, sika deer, Canada geese,... All species introduced by man and have had negative effects on habitats and native species in this Country. The IUCN state that non-native species are one of the top three greatest causes of extinction. Because they are cuddly, people get swayed by the semantics of the situation. The RSPB actively 'control' Canada geese on their reserves as they understand the negative effects they have on the habitats and other species present.

Now we look at plants and everyone seems to understand and accept that Japanese knotweed, Himalayan balsam and rhododendron needs removing from habitats, but there is never any uproar about that.

Non-native species are a menace humans created and it is only right that humans fix said menace. Yes Canada geese are lovely but they should be controlled.
I heard that the knotweed problem is to be tackled by introducing yet another none native species of psyllid, which feeds on the sap.

I do hope that this is carefully controlled and monitored to ensure there are no unforeseen consequences!

Perhaps they need to get the geese to eat knotweed!
[quote][p][bold]brokenbanjo[/bold] wrote: American mink, grey squirrel, muntjac deer, fallow deer, sika deer, Canada geese,... All species introduced by man and have had negative effects on habitats and native species in this Country. The IUCN state that non-native species are one of the top three greatest causes of extinction. Because they are cuddly, people get swayed by the semantics of the situation. The RSPB actively 'control' Canada geese on their reserves as they understand the negative effects they have on the habitats and other species present. Now we look at plants and everyone seems to understand and accept that Japanese knotweed, Himalayan balsam and rhododendron needs removing from habitats, but there is never any uproar about that. Non-native species are a menace humans created and it is only right that humans fix said menace. Yes Canada geese are lovely but they should be controlled.[/p][/quote]I heard that the knotweed problem is to be tackled by introducing yet another none native species of psyllid, which feeds on the sap. I do hope that this is carefully controlled and monitored to ensure there are no unforeseen consequences! Perhaps they need to get the geese to eat knotweed! life cycle too
  • Score: 0

11:36pm Sun 5 Feb 12

henryalex says...

brokenbanjo I think you need to find out how these isles were populated and what early inhabitants brought with them. It is a naive view to think that there were original and pure species. Our natural history has always involved species being introduced by people who have travelled for thousands of years. What people today consider to be a, 'natural,' landscape of the Lake District is not, people have affected our landscape by forestry, farming and quarrying. It is the same argument of finding pure native people. Management and protection of the environment is important but this issue is not about that. The argument about water pollution is ridiculous, boats on the Lake and chemical residue draining into the Lake from farms are the real culprits. If the cull goes ahead hundreds of birds will have been killed unnecessarily because every cull tried has failed so do you just keep killing more and more?
brokenbanjo I think you need to find out how these isles were populated and what early inhabitants brought with them. It is a naive view to think that there were original and pure species. Our natural history has always involved species being introduced by people who have travelled for thousands of years. What people today consider to be a, 'natural,' landscape of the Lake District is not, people have affected our landscape by forestry, farming and quarrying. It is the same argument of finding pure native people. Management and protection of the environment is important but this issue is not about that. The argument about water pollution is ridiculous, boats on the Lake and chemical residue draining into the Lake from farms are the real culprits. If the cull goes ahead hundreds of birds will have been killed unnecessarily because every cull tried has failed so do you just keep killing more and more? henryalex
  • Score: 0

11:36pm Sun 5 Feb 12

henryalex says...

brokenbanjo I think you need to find out how these isles were populated and what early inhabitants brought with them. It is a naive view to think that there were original and pure species. Our natural history has always involved species being introduced by people who have travelled for thousands of years. What people today consider to be a, 'natural,' landscape of the Lake District is not, people have affected our landscape by forestry, farming and quarrying. It is the same argument of finding pure native people. Management and protection of the environment is important but this issue is not about that. The argument about water pollution is ridiculous, boats on the Lake and chemical residue draining into the Lake from farms are the real culprits. If the cull goes ahead hundreds of birds will have been killed unnecessarily because every cull tried has failed so do you just keep killing more and more?
brokenbanjo I think you need to find out how these isles were populated and what early inhabitants brought with them. It is a naive view to think that there were original and pure species. Our natural history has always involved species being introduced by people who have travelled for thousands of years. What people today consider to be a, 'natural,' landscape of the Lake District is not, people have affected our landscape by forestry, farming and quarrying. It is the same argument of finding pure native people. Management and protection of the environment is important but this issue is not about that. The argument about water pollution is ridiculous, boats on the Lake and chemical residue draining into the Lake from farms are the real culprits. If the cull goes ahead hundreds of birds will have been killed unnecessarily because every cull tried has failed so do you just keep killing more and more? henryalex
  • Score: 0

9:12am Mon 6 Feb 12

nixon1 says...

I notice that no one has yet mentioned this, so i thought i best to bring it to your attention.

If the main issue is water quality i think the it should be noted that the poor water quality is not a result of geese
but UNITED UTILITIES dumping SEWAGE into the lake. Maybe a study should be done taking this in mind and NOT needlessly cull these animals. It seems this is always an easy answer when a minority complains.

http://www.thewestmo
rlandgazette.co.uk/n
ews/9111181.Raw_sewa
ge_will_not_affect_W
indermere_bathing_sp
ot__says_utility_fir
m/
I notice that no one has yet mentioned this, so i thought i best to bring it to your attention. If the main issue is water quality i think the it should be noted that the poor water quality is not a result of geese but UNITED UTILITIES dumping SEWAGE into the lake. Maybe a study should be done taking this in mind and NOT needlessly cull these animals. It seems this is always an easy answer when a minority complains. http://www.thewestmo rlandgazette.co.uk/n ews/9111181.Raw_sewa ge_will_not_affect_W indermere_bathing_sp ot__says_utility_fir m/ nixon1
  • Score: 0

3:15pm Mon 6 Feb 12

henryalex says...

Thank you nixon. Just been looking at research done on Windermere water quality. There is pollution from heavy metals from mining days, radioactivity presumably from Sellafield, chemicals from farming, sewage and detergents from people, diesel from boats and they are saying that a few birds are a threat to water purity! The number of birds involved and the capacity of Windermere makes these claims ridiculous.
Thank you nixon. Just been looking at research done on Windermere water quality. There is pollution from heavy metals from mining days, radioactivity presumably from Sellafield, chemicals from farming, sewage and detergents from people, diesel from boats and they are saying that a few birds are a threat to water purity! The number of birds involved and the capacity of Windermere makes these claims ridiculous. henryalex
  • Score: 0

5:33pm Mon 6 Feb 12

lakesailor says...

henryalex wrote:
I am disgusted with the RSPB I am a member as I thought that they protect birds not kill them. I am cancelling my membership. This argument about non native species is fallacious, when does a species qualify as native? Same argument used by racists. The Lake District was covered by ice on and off for 2 million years, 12,00 years ago since the ice melted so all people, plants animals and birds are newcomers to Geologists like myself. The birds are here, they are wonderful living creatures, we should not be destroying them. This is also ruining the reputation of the Lake District so not a great commercial strategy for the LDNPA.
"This is also ruining the reputation of the Lake District "
Where would that be then? In your front room?
Get a sense of proportion man. They are not proposing to wipe them from the face of the earth but to reduce numbers to a manageable and healthy population. Do you also believe deer culling is wrong?
[quote][p][bold]henryalex[/bold] wrote: I am disgusted with the RSPB I am a member as I thought that they protect birds not kill them. I am cancelling my membership. This argument about non native species is fallacious, when does a species qualify as native? Same argument used by racists. The Lake District was covered by ice on and off for 2 million years, 12,00 years ago since the ice melted so all people, plants animals and birds are newcomers to Geologists like myself. The birds are here, they are wonderful living creatures, we should not be destroying them. This is also ruining the reputation of the Lake District so not a great commercial strategy for the LDNPA.[/p][/quote]"This is also ruining the reputation of the Lake District " Where would that be then? In your front room? Get a sense of proportion man. They are not proposing to wipe them from the face of the earth but to reduce numbers to a manageable and healthy population. Do you also believe deer culling is wrong? lakesailor
  • Score: 0

7:12pm Mon 6 Feb 12

HolisticH says...

nixon1 wrote:
I notice that no one has yet mentioned this, so i thought i best to bring it to your attention.

If the main issue is water quality i think the it should be noted that the poor water quality is not a result of geese
but UNITED UTILITIES dumping SEWAGE into the lake. Maybe a study should be done taking this in mind and NOT needlessly cull these animals. It seems this is always an easy answer when a minority complains.

http://www.thewestmo

rlandgazette.co.uk/n

ews/9111181.Raw_sewa

ge_will_not_affect_W

indermere_bathing_sp

ot__says_utility_fir

m/
Well Said Nixon1 & Henryalex! :)
[quote][p][bold]nixon1[/bold] wrote: I notice that no one has yet mentioned this, so i thought i best to bring it to your attention. If the main issue is water quality i think the it should be noted that the poor water quality is not a result of geese but UNITED UTILITIES dumping SEWAGE into the lake. Maybe a study should be done taking this in mind and NOT needlessly cull these animals. It seems this is always an easy answer when a minority complains. http://www.thewestmo rlandgazette.co.uk/n ews/9111181.Raw_sewa ge_will_not_affect_W indermere_bathing_sp ot__says_utility_fir m/[/p][/quote]Well Said Nixon1 & Henryalex! :) HolisticH
  • Score: 0

9:25pm Mon 6 Feb 12

henryalex says...

lakesailor you may not be aware that this issue is spreading via the internet. I suggest that you get yourself au fait with contemporary communication methods which yes - do happen in people's own houses. People have to make choices on how to spend their money at the moment. We see visitors in the Lakes but are they spending money in local businesses? A lot of day visitors now appear to opt to bring their own food for example. The tourist industry is fragile as it relies on disposable income. Reputation is not to be taken lightly. There is no evidence that the birds are suffering from lack of food or habitat which is why deer are culled. There is no evidence that they are a threat to any other species. The biggest threat to the lake is man made pollution as I described previously. There is scientific evidence to prove this.
lakesailor you may not be aware that this issue is spreading via the internet. I suggest that you get yourself au fait with contemporary communication methods which yes - do happen in people's own houses. People have to make choices on how to spend their money at the moment. We see visitors in the Lakes but are they spending money in local businesses? A lot of day visitors now appear to opt to bring their own food for example. The tourist industry is fragile as it relies on disposable income. Reputation is not to be taken lightly. There is no evidence that the birds are suffering from lack of food or habitat which is why deer are culled. There is no evidence that they are a threat to any other species. The biggest threat to the lake is man made pollution as I described previously. There is scientific evidence to prove this. henryalex
  • Score: 0

9:43am Tue 7 Feb 12

life cycle too says...

To be fair, the LDNPA culled a lot of power boats from the lake with the introduction of the 10 mph speed limit, and many of the vessels left are cruisers or yachts.

I'm sure that the commercial vessels are monitored for any pollution output.

As to radioactivity, there are natural traces that concentrate in muds and silts, and some wash off from Chernobyl.
I don't recall even the tin foil hat brigade claiming Sellafield is polluting Windermere - although it will only be a matter of time once they read your post here which will be reposted elsewhere as fact!! :)
To be fair, the LDNPA culled a lot of power boats from the lake with the introduction of the 10 mph speed limit, and many of the vessels left are cruisers or yachts. I'm sure that the commercial vessels are monitored for any pollution output. As to radioactivity, there are natural traces that concentrate in muds and silts, and some wash off from Chernobyl. I don't recall even the tin foil hat brigade claiming Sellafield is polluting Windermere - although it will only be a matter of time once they read your post here which will be reposted elsewhere as fact!! :) life cycle too
  • Score: 0

12:50pm Tue 7 Feb 12

lakesailor says...

We were in hospitality for a few years. No-one ever complained that they wouldn't be coming again because they had discovered farmers kill lambs.
The average visitor to the Lakes probably doesn't even see the geese, they are very timid birds.
The issues of day visitors is to do with financial considerations which are not within our control.
To try and link the cull of a couple of hundred geese to a negative effect on local tourism is fanciful.
We were in hospitality for a few years. No-one ever complained that they wouldn't be coming again because they had discovered farmers kill lambs. The average visitor to the Lakes probably doesn't even see the geese, they are very timid birds. The issues of day visitors is to do with financial considerations which are not within our control. To try and link the cull of a couple of hundred geese to a negative effect on local tourism is fanciful. lakesailor
  • Score: 0

1:14pm Tue 7 Feb 12

WilliamT says...

There may be some fallout residue in the lake from the Sellafield/ Windscale fire of 1957- these radiochemists are pretty good, and can probably separate that one from Chernobyl. Several orders of magnitude below the significance level of course. Otherwise, Sellafield is innocent. Free the Sellafield One!
There may be some fallout residue in the lake from the Sellafield/ Windscale fire of 1957- these radiochemists are pretty good, and can probably separate that one from Chernobyl. Several orders of magnitude below the significance level of course. Otherwise, Sellafield is innocent. Free the Sellafield One! WilliamT
  • Score: 0

2:26pm Tue 7 Feb 12

life cycle too says...

WilliamT wrote:
There may be some fallout residue in the lake from the Sellafield/ Windscale fire of 1957- these radiochemists are pretty good, and can probably separate that one from Chernobyl. Several orders of magnitude below the significance level of course. Otherwise, Sellafield is innocent. Free the Sellafield One!
They can indeed - every batch of irradiated material has a unique signature.

It was monitoring of the atmosphere abroad at nuclear sites including Sellafield that detected that the Russians had a problem at Chernobyl - before it was made public by the USSR.
[quote][p][bold]WilliamT[/bold] wrote: There may be some fallout residue in the lake from the Sellafield/ Windscale fire of 1957- these radiochemists are pretty good, and can probably separate that one from Chernobyl. Several orders of magnitude below the significance level of course. Otherwise, Sellafield is innocent. Free the Sellafield One![/p][/quote]They can indeed - every batch of irradiated material has a unique signature. It was monitoring of the atmosphere abroad at nuclear sites including Sellafield that detected that the Russians had a problem at Chernobyl - before it was made public by the USSR. life cycle too
  • Score: 0

5:29pm Tue 7 Feb 12

LADY TILLY WINDERMERE says...

Goose poop is not a health hazard - their claims about E coli are simply overgeneralized fear mongering. Waterfowl experts, water safety experts, and the Centre for Disease control in the USA say goose poop has little to no potential to cause disease. Here is just one reference from a great Canada goose site but there are more here. "Dr. Milton Friend, former director, Wildlife Research Center Water Fowl Disease U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, is adamant: "On occasion we have been wading in that stuff , dead birds up to our elbows... there is not a single, documented case of any of us coming down with any kind of a disease problem as a result of Canada geese... we do not have a human health situation, NOT in the urban goose, NOT in the wild goose, not in the captive geese that we have also worked with. We do have a lot of diseases out there that can affect people. Most of them come from different places and do not come from the Canada goose and I'll leave you with that." !!!

http://​www.articl
es.lovecanadageese.c
o​m/umpteenth.html
Goose poop is not a health hazard - their claims about E coli are simply overgeneralized fear mongering. Waterfowl experts, water safety experts, and the Centre for Disease control in the USA say goose poop has little to no potential to cause disease. Here is just one reference from a great Canada goose site but there are more here. "Dr. Milton Friend, former director, Wildlife Research Center Water Fowl Disease U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, is adamant: "On occasion we have been wading in that stuff [feces], dead birds up to our elbows... there is not a single, documented case of any of us coming down with any kind of a disease problem as a result of Canada geese... we do not have a human health situation, NOT in the urban goose, NOT in the wild goose, not in the captive geese that we have also worked with. We do have a lot of diseases out there that can affect people. Most of them come from different places and do not come from the Canada goose and I'll leave you with that." !!! http://​www.articl es.lovecanadageese.c o​m/umpteenth.html LADY TILLY WINDERMERE
  • Score: 0

5:32pm Tue 7 Feb 12

LADY TILLY WINDERMERE says...

HUMANE CONTROL MEASURES

There are humane ways to control Canada goose populations (see below) - if there really are too many geese in an area. But an unrepresentative minority of people can sometimes persuade a land-owner into hasty action against Canada geese which is deeply unpopular with the majority of land-users who like and appreciate these fine birds.

The best answer in urban areas - where many people want to feed the birds - is to encourage them in some areas but not in others (using the humane control methods described below). This makes it easier to keep parks clean, and keeps everyone happy. Remember that although goose-mess may look unsightly, it is not a health-hazard (it's simply recycled grass after all).

Egg-control (making eggs sterile by soaking in paraffin, or by some other method) is not considered a humane control method. However if carried out, then egg-control should be done as humanely as possible - i.e. soon after the laying time. If the eggs float when submerged in a bucket of water then the embryos are already 2 weeks old and well-developed and should be left alone. At least one egg should always be left unharmed, or geese will lay another clutch.

A combination of control measures may be more effective than one method by itself - and it is always best to seek specialist advice ..
HUMANE CONTROL MEASURES There are humane ways to control Canada goose populations (see below) - if there really are too many geese in an area. But an unrepresentative minority of people can sometimes persuade a land-owner into hasty action against Canada geese which is deeply unpopular with the majority of land-users who like and appreciate these fine birds. The best answer in urban areas - where many people want to feed the birds - is to encourage them in some areas but not in others (using the humane control methods described below). This makes it easier to keep parks clean, and keeps everyone happy. Remember that although goose-mess may look unsightly, it is not a health-hazard (it's simply recycled grass after all). Egg-control (making eggs sterile by soaking in paraffin, or by some other method) is not considered a humane control method. However if carried out, then egg-control should be done as humanely as possible - i.e. soon after the laying time. If the eggs float when submerged in a bucket of water then the embryos are already 2 weeks old and well-developed and should be left alone. At least one egg should always be left unharmed, or geese will lay another clutch. A combination of control measures may be more effective than one method by itself - and it is always best to seek specialist advice .. LADY TILLY WINDERMERE
  • Score: 0

5:53pm Tue 7 Feb 12

LADY TILLY WINDERMERE says...

Goodness me the poor Canada goose has survived Bownessie who lurks in the dept of Windermere, it has managed not to get eaten by giant black cats which hangs around Windermere, surely it will not get culled. They are a welcoming sight when they fly over my horses every morning and evening infact I love seeing them flying over and I love the “honk sound they make . so say no to the cull !!!!!!!!!!
Goodness me the poor Canada goose has survived Bownessie who lurks in the dept of Windermere, it has managed not to get eaten by giant black cats which hangs around Windermere, surely it will not get culled. They are a welcoming sight when they fly over my horses every morning and evening infact I love seeing them flying over and I love the “honk sound they make . so say no to the cull !!!!!!!!!! LADY TILLY WINDERMERE
  • Score: 0

5:53pm Tue 7 Feb 12

LADY TILLY WINDERMERE says...

Goodness me the poor Canada goose has survived Bownessie who lurks in the dept of Windermere, it has managed not to get eaten by giant black cats which hangs around Windermere, surely it will not get culled. They are a welcoming sight when they fly over my horses every morning and evening infact I love seeing them flying over and I love the “honk sound they make . so say no to the cull !!!!!!!!!!
Goodness me the poor Canada goose has survived Bownessie who lurks in the dept of Windermere, it has managed not to get eaten by giant black cats which hangs around Windermere, surely it will not get culled. They are a welcoming sight when they fly over my horses every morning and evening infact I love seeing them flying over and I love the “honk sound they make . so say no to the cull !!!!!!!!!! LADY TILLY WINDERMERE
  • Score: 0

5:53pm Tue 7 Feb 12

LADY TILLY WINDERMERE says...

Goodness me the poor Canada goose has survived Bownessie who lurks in the dept of Windermere, it has managed not to get eaten by giant black cats which hangs around Windermere, surely it will not get culled. They are a welcoming sight when they fly over my horses every morning and evening infact I love seeing them flying over and I love the “honk sound they make . so say no to the cull !!!!!!!!!!
Goodness me the poor Canada goose has survived Bownessie who lurks in the dept of Windermere, it has managed not to get eaten by giant black cats which hangs around Windermere, surely it will not get culled. They are a welcoming sight when they fly over my horses every morning and evening infact I love seeing them flying over and I love the “honk sound they make . so say no to the cull !!!!!!!!!! LADY TILLY WINDERMERE
  • Score: 0

9:52pm Tue 7 Feb 12

lakesdream says...

I am really angry and upset about this proposed cull. These are amazing birds. There is absolutley no evidence that they are causing any harm. There is a vast amount of research about water quality in Windermere and it is all due to human activity. Stratford upon Avon Council have successfully empolyed humane strategies to reduce their Canada Geese population. The RSPB and the LDNPA must know about these. They obviously cannot be bothered to employ the patient tactics which Stratford upon Avon did.Well done to Clive Hartley, you are an inspiration. I have been an active and loyal member of the RSPB for nearly 30 years and love Leighton Moss but I shall follow your example. I am resigning in disgust that they can support killing birds. I shall give my money to animal welfare charities who care for animals not destroy them. It is ridiculous to say that these birds should not be here, they have been here since the 1600s and it is not their fault that they are here. I don't go round saying that people who have not lived in the Lake District as long as my family should not be here and a lot of them cause more problems than the geese!
I am really angry and upset about this proposed cull. These are amazing birds. There is absolutley no evidence that they are causing any harm. There is a vast amount of research about water quality in Windermere and it is all due to human activity. Stratford upon Avon Council have successfully empolyed humane strategies to reduce their Canada Geese population. The RSPB and the LDNPA must know about these. They obviously cannot be bothered to employ the patient tactics which Stratford upon Avon did.Well done to Clive Hartley, you are an inspiration. I have been an active and loyal member of the RSPB for nearly 30 years and love Leighton Moss but I shall follow your example. I am resigning in disgust that they can support killing birds. I shall give my money to animal welfare charities who care for animals not destroy them. It is ridiculous to say that these birds should not be here, they have been here since the 1600s and it is not their fault that they are here. I don't go round saying that people who have not lived in the Lake District as long as my family should not be here and a lot of them cause more problems than the geese! lakesdream
  • Score: 0

10:07pm Tue 7 Feb 12

HolisticH says...

lakesdream wrote:
I am really angry and upset about this proposed cull. These are amazing birds. There is absolutley no evidence that they are causing any harm. There is a vast amount of research about water quality in Windermere and it is all due to human activity. Stratford upon Avon Council have successfully empolyed humane strategies to reduce their Canada Geese population. The RSPB and the LDNPA must know about these. They obviously cannot be bothered to employ the patient tactics which Stratford upon Avon did.Well done to Clive Hartley, you are an inspiration. I have been an active and loyal member of the RSPB for nearly 30 years and love Leighton Moss but I shall follow your example. I am resigning in disgust that they can support killing birds. I shall give my money to animal welfare charities who care for animals not destroy them. It is ridiculous to say that these birds should not be here, they have been here since the 1600s and it is not their fault that they are here. I don't go round saying that people who have not lived in the Lake District as long as my family should not be here and a lot of them cause more problems than the geese!
Fantastic comment!!!
[quote][p][bold]lakesdream[/bold] wrote: I am really angry and upset about this proposed cull. These are amazing birds. There is absolutley no evidence that they are causing any harm. There is a vast amount of research about water quality in Windermere and it is all due to human activity. Stratford upon Avon Council have successfully empolyed humane strategies to reduce their Canada Geese population. The RSPB and the LDNPA must know about these. They obviously cannot be bothered to employ the patient tactics which Stratford upon Avon did.Well done to Clive Hartley, you are an inspiration. I have been an active and loyal member of the RSPB for nearly 30 years and love Leighton Moss but I shall follow your example. I am resigning in disgust that they can support killing birds. I shall give my money to animal welfare charities who care for animals not destroy them. It is ridiculous to say that these birds should not be here, they have been here since the 1600s and it is not their fault that they are here. I don't go round saying that people who have not lived in the Lake District as long as my family should not be here and a lot of them cause more problems than the geese![/p][/quote]Fantastic comment!!! HolisticH
  • Score: 0

10:08pm Tue 7 Feb 12

HolisticH says...

LADY TILLY WINDERMERE wrote:
Goodness me the poor Canada goose has survived Bownessie who lurks in the dept of Windermere, it has managed not to get eaten by giant black cats which hangs around Windermere, surely it will not get culled. They are a welcoming sight when they fly over my horses every morning and evening infact I love seeing them flying over and I love the “honk sound they make . so say no to the cull !!!!!!!!!!
All together now "SAY NO TO THE CULL"
[quote][p][bold]LADY TILLY WINDERMERE[/bold] wrote: Goodness me the poor Canada goose has survived Bownessie who lurks in the dept of Windermere, it has managed not to get eaten by giant black cats which hangs around Windermere, surely it will not get culled. They are a welcoming sight when they fly over my horses every morning and evening infact I love seeing them flying over and I love the “honk sound they make . so say no to the cull !!!!!!!!!![/p][/quote]All together now "SAY NO TO THE CULL" HolisticH
  • Score: 0

11:08pm Tue 7 Feb 12

Beatrix Potter says...

I was shocked and deeply concerned at the news that 200 of the magnificent Canada Geese living at Lake Windermere are destined be culled.
Apart from the fact that they are a major tourist attraction, these
birds have learned to trust humans, not fear them. What will be the
next step....shoot the swans? You can't. It's against the law. It should also be against the law to shoot any of these creatures, especially those who live alongside humans.

I have read the comments on this page with great interest, particularly Lady Tilly Windermere’s research information proving geese poop is not at all harmful, and her knowledgeable advice regarding controlling geese numbers humanely. I was appalled to read the comment from Nixon 1 informing us that United Utilities is dumping sewage in the lake. Why has this be sanctioned? Surely stopping this practice should be the first step, not killing geese? If the issue is pollution, let’s ‘cull’ all those disgusting people who drop litter in and around Lake Windermere. They are destroying the environment, encouraging vermin and endangering wildlife.

It seems to me, from the above comments, that the only real argument in favour of killing the Canada Geese (and let’s not use the word ‘culling’), is from the farmer who objects to the geese sharing his grass with his sheep and his boat! Is this a good enough reason for 200 killings?
Please think again!
I was shocked and deeply concerned at the news that 200 of the magnificent Canada Geese living at Lake Windermere are destined be culled. Apart from the fact that they are a major tourist attraction, these birds have learned to trust humans, not fear them. What will be the next step....shoot the swans? You can't. It's against the law. It should also be against the law to shoot any of these creatures, especially those who live alongside humans. I have read the comments on this page with great interest, particularly Lady Tilly Windermere’s research information proving geese poop is not at all harmful, and her knowledgeable advice regarding controlling geese numbers humanely. I was appalled to read the comment from Nixon 1 informing us that United Utilities is dumping sewage in the lake. Why has this be sanctioned? Surely stopping this practice should be the first step, not killing geese? If the issue is pollution, let’s ‘cull’ all those disgusting people who drop litter in and around Lake Windermere. They are destroying the environment, encouraging vermin and endangering wildlife. It seems to me, from the above comments, that the only real argument in favour of killing the Canada Geese (and let’s not use the word ‘culling’), is from the farmer who objects to the geese sharing his grass with his sheep and his boat! Is this a good enough reason for 200 killings? Please think again! Beatrix Potter
  • Score: 0

11:12pm Tue 7 Feb 12

HolisticH says...

Beatrix Potter wrote:
I was shocked and deeply concerned at the news that 200 of the magnificent Canada Geese living at Lake Windermere are destined be culled.
Apart from the fact that they are a major tourist attraction, these
birds have learned to trust humans, not fear them. What will be the
next step....shoot the swans? You can't. It's against the law. It should also be against the law to shoot any of these creatures, especially those who live alongside humans.

I have read the comments on this page with great interest, particularly Lady Tilly Windermere’s research information proving geese poop is not at all harmful, and her knowledgeable advice regarding controlling geese numbers humanely. I was appalled to read the comment from Nixon 1 informing us that United Utilities is dumping sewage in the lake. Why has this be sanctioned? Surely stopping this practice should be the first step, not killing geese? If the issue is pollution, let’s ‘cull’ all those disgusting people who drop litter in and around Lake Windermere. They are destroying the environment, encouraging vermin and endangering wildlife.

It seems to me, from the above comments, that the only real argument in favour of killing the Canada Geese (and let’s not use the word ‘culling’), is from the farmer who objects to the geese sharing his grass with his sheep and his boat! Is this a good enough reason for 200 killings?
Please think again!
Couldn't agree more!
STOP THE MURDER!
[quote][p][bold]Beatrix Potter[/bold] wrote: I was shocked and deeply concerned at the news that 200 of the magnificent Canada Geese living at Lake Windermere are destined be culled. Apart from the fact that they are a major tourist attraction, these birds have learned to trust humans, not fear them. What will be the next step....shoot the swans? You can't. It's against the law. It should also be against the law to shoot any of these creatures, especially those who live alongside humans. I have read the comments on this page with great interest, particularly Lady Tilly Windermere’s research information proving geese poop is not at all harmful, and her knowledgeable advice regarding controlling geese numbers humanely. I was appalled to read the comment from Nixon 1 informing us that United Utilities is dumping sewage in the lake. Why has this be sanctioned? Surely stopping this practice should be the first step, not killing geese? If the issue is pollution, let’s ‘cull’ all those disgusting people who drop litter in and around Lake Windermere. They are destroying the environment, encouraging vermin and endangering wildlife. It seems to me, from the above comments, that the only real argument in favour of killing the Canada Geese (and let’s not use the word ‘culling’), is from the farmer who objects to the geese sharing his grass with his sheep and his boat! Is this a good enough reason for 200 killings? Please think again![/p][/quote]Couldn't agree more! STOP THE MURDER! HolisticH
  • Score: 0

11:11am Wed 8 Feb 12

TwoHat says...

I assume from the above comments that those who oppose the cull also adopt a vegan way of living? If not, your opposition smacks of sentimentality and hypocrisy.
I assume from the above comments that those who oppose the cull also adopt a vegan way of living? If not, your opposition smacks of sentimentality and hypocrisy. TwoHat
  • Score: 0

1:43pm Wed 8 Feb 12

henryalex says...

TwoHat yours is a predictable response from someone who is losing the argument. Instead of discussing the facts of the case specifically and intelligently you resort to gross generalisation and insult. It is obvious that there is no scientific justification for killing these birds. That may be an uncomfortable truth to you for some reason but at least keep to the facts.
TwoHat yours is a predictable response from someone who is losing the argument. Instead of discussing the facts of the case specifically and intelligently you resort to gross generalisation and insult. It is obvious that there is no scientific justification for killing these birds. That may be an uncomfortable truth to you for some reason but at least keep to the facts. henryalex
  • Score: 0

1:45pm Wed 8 Feb 12

henryalex says...

TwoHat yours is a predictable response from someone who is losing the argument. Instead of discussing the facts of the case specifically and intelligently you resort to gross generalisation and insult. It is obvious that there is no scientific justification for killing these birds. That may be an uncomfortable truth to you for some reason but at least keep to the facts.
TwoHat yours is a predictable response from someone who is losing the argument. Instead of discussing the facts of the case specifically and intelligently you resort to gross generalisation and insult. It is obvious that there is no scientific justification for killing these birds. That may be an uncomfortable truth to you for some reason but at least keep to the facts. henryalex
  • Score: 0

2:25pm Wed 8 Feb 12

TwoHat says...

So you aren't a vegan then? What's your argument for not harvesting these birds then? Because they are cute? Because they are an endangered species? I genuinely don't understand the irrational response to the proposed cull.
So you aren't a vegan then? What's your argument for not harvesting these birds then? Because they are cute? Because they are an endangered species? I genuinely don't understand the irrational response to the proposed cull. TwoHat
  • Score: 0

2:27pm Wed 8 Feb 12

MarionA says...

Pathetic you are dumping raw sewage into the lake and blaming geese. "‎"FEARS that raw sewage is to be pumped into Windermere close to a popular bathing beach have been dismissed by United Utilities.

The company admits it intends to pump untreated, but diluted, sewage into the lake to alleviate flooding at the tourist information centre in Glebe Road, Bowness."

Who dumps raw sewage into a lake? http://www.thewestmo
rlandgazette.co.uk/n
ews/9111181.Raw_sewa
ge_will_not_affect_W
indermere_bathing_sp
ot__says_utility_fir
m/
Pathetic you are dumping raw sewage into the lake and blaming geese. "‎"FEARS that raw sewage is to be pumped into Windermere close to a popular bathing beach have been dismissed by United Utilities. The company admits it intends to pump untreated, but diluted, sewage into the lake to alleviate flooding at the tourist information centre in Glebe Road, Bowness." Who dumps raw sewage into a lake? http://www.thewestmo rlandgazette.co.uk/n ews/9111181.Raw_sewa ge_will_not_affect_W indermere_bathing_sp ot__says_utility_fir m/ MarionA
  • Score: 0

2:39pm Wed 8 Feb 12

MarionA says...

TwoHat wrote:
HolisticH wrote:
lakesman wrote:
its a shame this was nt done before christmas ,then they could of sold them for cristmas ,and made bit of much needed cash
I am 100% AGAINST the cull of these beautiful birds. I feel utterly disgusted reading some of the above comments, idiotic jokes about shooting these geese and saving yourself a bit of cash before Christmas or referring to these birds as pests!! How can people be so flippant about such a serious issue! I have obviously been in contact with the RSPB to air my concerns and I urge others who are against the cull to contact them. As for the people who are supporting the cull of these precious birds, lets hope that the government never brings in a cull to deal with the over populated human race, id hate to hear your views on that!
I wasn't joking, and what qualifies you to judge my intelligence? You are entitled to your opinion, and so are others. Calling those who disagree with you "idiots" doesn't make your opinion worth any more than theirs.
I live in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. We have year round resident Canada geese here whose population has been managed nonlethally and effectively for 30 years with egg addling. Any community that has to resort to killing Canada geese is backwards and run by inept people who certainly shouldn't be trusted to kill a bunch of innocent birds.

It is also interesting they intend to kill nesting pairs while their own best practices document states: TIN009 - The management of problems caused by Canada geese: a guide to best practice (TIN009)

http://naturalenglan
d.etraderstores.com/
NaturalEnglandShop/T
IN009

It should also be noted that at long established breeding sites there may be a surplus of birds waiting to occupy breeding territories, but which moult elsewhere.

Thus, a cull of breeding birds may simply create vacant territories for other birds to move into and repeat culls may be necessary for a number of years before the problem is finally brought under control.


Culling of Canada Geese
This work is proposed to start in the spring of 2012. It is intended to cull up to 200 birds at this time and to monitor the effect of this work with a view to carrying out further culls over the next 5 years.

• Briefing note on management of Canada geese on Windermere (Word document)

......they are killing nesting pairs which will create a vacuum which will be replaced yearly by nesting pairs and the culls will continue until the geese will be exterminated. Why aren't they simply addling the eggs of the nesting pairs? They intent to kill nesters yearly is why.
[quote][p][bold]TwoHat[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HolisticH[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]lakesman[/bold] wrote: its a shame this was nt done before christmas ,then they could of sold them for cristmas ,and made bit of much needed cash[/p][/quote]I am 100% AGAINST the cull of these beautiful birds. I feel utterly disgusted reading some of the above comments, idiotic jokes about shooting these geese and saving yourself a bit of cash before Christmas or referring to these birds as pests!! How can people be so flippant about such a serious issue! I have obviously been in contact with the RSPB to air my concerns and I urge others who are against the cull to contact them. As for the people who are supporting the cull of these precious birds, lets hope that the government never brings in a cull to deal with the over populated human race, id hate to hear your views on that![/p][/quote]I wasn't joking, and what qualifies you to judge my intelligence? You are entitled to your opinion, and so are others. Calling those who disagree with you "idiots" doesn't make your opinion worth any more than theirs.[/p][/quote]I live in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. We have year round resident Canada geese here whose population has been managed nonlethally and effectively for 30 years with egg addling. Any community that has to resort to killing Canada geese is backwards and run by inept people who certainly shouldn't be trusted to kill a bunch of innocent birds. It is also interesting they intend to kill nesting pairs while their own best practices document states: TIN009 - The management of problems caused by Canada geese: a guide to best practice (TIN009) http://naturalenglan d.etraderstores.com/ NaturalEnglandShop/T IN009 It should also be noted that at long established breeding sites there may be a surplus of birds waiting to occupy breeding territories, but which moult elsewhere. Thus, a cull of breeding birds may simply create vacant territories for other birds to move into and repeat culls may be necessary for a number of years before the problem is finally brought under control. Culling of Canada Geese This work is proposed to start in the spring of 2012. It is intended to cull up to 200 birds at this time and to monitor the effect of this work with a view to carrying out further culls over the next 5 years. • Briefing note on management of Canada geese on Windermere (Word document) ......they are killing nesting pairs which will create a vacuum which will be replaced yearly by nesting pairs and the culls will continue until the geese will be exterminated. Why aren't they simply addling the eggs of the nesting pairs? They intent to kill nesters yearly is why. MarionA
  • Score: 0

2:47pm Wed 8 Feb 12

MarionA says...

I did some research on Windermere Lake and see it is a huge tourist and holiday area. Animal lovers spending money on holidays would like to know what businesses in this area support the geese or support the killing of them so we can avoid these businesses or maybe we need to avoid Windermere Lake totally. I hope someone can do some canvassing of local businesses, hotels, etc and post this information on the Tripadvisor site for Windermere Lake businesses, hotels, etc. I wouldn't waste my money on anyone who supports killing Canada geese.
I did some research on Windermere Lake and see it is a huge tourist and holiday area. Animal lovers spending money on holidays would like to know what businesses in this area support the geese or support the killing of them so we can avoid these businesses or maybe we need to avoid Windermere Lake totally. I hope someone can do some canvassing of local businesses, hotels, etc and post this information on the Tripadvisor site for Windermere Lake businesses, hotels, etc. I wouldn't waste my money on anyone who supports killing Canada geese. MarionA
  • Score: 0

3:01pm Wed 8 Feb 12

henryalex says...

TwoHats, you don't seem to understand that an irrational response is one without scientific evidence. All the scientific evidence shows that the Canada Geese in the size of flock on Windermere and the capacity of Windermere is no threat to water quality or other species. The scientific evidence does show the high levels of pollution in Windermere water caused by human activity. The proposed cull which is now becoming a global concern is actually highlighting just how polluted Windermere is. Perhaps you should do some research yourself into the water quality of Windermere, it is easily accessible on the internet. I don't mind having an informed discussion with anyone who has opposing views to myself but when someone is just prejudiced it is a waste of time.
TwoHats, you don't seem to understand that an irrational response is one without scientific evidence. All the scientific evidence shows that the Canada Geese in the size of flock on Windermere and the capacity of Windermere is no threat to water quality or other species. The scientific evidence does show the high levels of pollution in Windermere water caused by human activity. The proposed cull which is now becoming a global concern is actually highlighting just how polluted Windermere is. Perhaps you should do some research yourself into the water quality of Windermere, it is easily accessible on the internet. I don't mind having an informed discussion with anyone who has opposing views to myself but when someone is just prejudiced it is a waste of time. henryalex
  • Score: 0

3:15pm Wed 8 Feb 12

save windermere geese says...

http://www.facebook.
com/dj.pg.monkey?ref
=tn_tnmn#!/groups/17
9274398844878/182992
215139763/?notif_t=g
roup_activity
http://www.facebook. com/dj.pg.monkey?ref =tn_tnmn#!/groups/17 9274398844878/182992 215139763/?notif_t=g roup_activity save windermere geese
  • Score: 0

3:16pm Wed 8 Feb 12

save windermere geese says...

http://www.facebook.
com/dj.pg.monkey?ref
=tn_tnmn#!/groups/17
9274398844878/182992
215139763/?notif_t=g
roup_activity
http://www.facebook. com/dj.pg.monkey?ref =tn_tnmn#!/groups/17 9274398844878/182992 215139763/?notif_t=g roup_activity save windermere geese
  • Score: 0

3:26pm Wed 8 Feb 12

save windermere geese says...

plz all join save windermere canada ceese on facebook
plz all join save windermere canada ceese on facebook save windermere geese
  • Score: 0

9:19pm Wed 8 Feb 12

PieWoman says...

save windermere geese wrote:
plz all join save windermere canada ceese on facebook
No I won't join your group.

I want to see the goose numbers reduced to a level which is sustainable and doesn't negatively impact on our native Lake District biodiversity.

Pie Woman
[quote][p][bold]save windermere geese[/bold] wrote: plz all join save windermere canada ceese on facebook[/p][/quote]No I won't join your group. I want to see the goose numbers reduced to a level which is sustainable and doesn't negatively impact on our native Lake District biodiversity. Pie Woman PieWoman
  • Score: 0

9:23pm Wed 8 Feb 12

HolisticH says...

save windermere geese wrote:
plz all join save windermere canada ceese on facebook
Done :)
[quote][p][bold]save windermere geese[/bold] wrote: plz all join save windermere canada ceese on facebook[/p][/quote]Done :) HolisticH
  • Score: 0

9:32pm Wed 8 Feb 12

henryalex says...

Pie Woman, Where do you get your information from? Where is your scientific evidence that the present population is unsustainable? When it is proved that the numbers are unsustainable there are humane methods of population control which have been utilised in England and throughout the world effectively. there is no need to kill to control. As explained in previous posts the notion of, 'native,' species is spurious. All species have been introduced from outside the area since the end of the last Ice Age. Canada Geese have been resident in England since the 1600s. There is no evidence that they pose a threat to any other species on Windermere. They are here, they are sentient creatures and it is totally unnecessary to kill them.
Pie Woman, Where do you get your information from? Where is your scientific evidence that the present population is unsustainable? When it is proved that the numbers are unsustainable there are humane methods of population control which have been utilised in England and throughout the world effectively. there is no need to kill to control. As explained in previous posts the notion of, 'native,' species is spurious. All species have been introduced from outside the area since the end of the last Ice Age. Canada Geese have been resident in England since the 1600s. There is no evidence that they pose a threat to any other species on Windermere. They are here, they are sentient creatures and it is totally unnecessary to kill them. henryalex
  • Score: 0

12:14pm Thu 9 Feb 12

PieWoman says...

henryalex wrote:
Pie Woman, Where do you get your information from? Where is your scientific evidence that the present population is unsustainable? When it is proved that the numbers are unsustainable there are humane methods of population control which have been utilised in England and throughout the world effectively. there is no need to kill to control. As explained in previous posts the notion of, 'native,' species is spurious. All species have been introduced from outside the area since the end of the last Ice Age. Canada Geese have been resident in England since the 1600s. There is no evidence that they pose a threat to any other species on Windermere. They are here, they are sentient creatures and it is totally unnecessary to kill them.
The question of sentience is a philosophical issue and not relevant in this argument - otherwise the argument broadens out to any form of killing by any species over any other, and brings into question vegitarianism, veganism, farming and even natural predation.

What is relevant here is that these geese are non-native and are having a detrimental impact on Windermere's biodiversity.

I am happy to take my scientific evidence from the expert groups who work on our behalf. They certainly have more credibility than most of the comments from individuals on this article.

Pie Woman
[quote][p][bold]henryalex[/bold] wrote: Pie Woman, Where do you get your information from? Where is your scientific evidence that the present population is unsustainable? When it is proved that the numbers are unsustainable there are humane methods of population control which have been utilised in England and throughout the world effectively. there is no need to kill to control. As explained in previous posts the notion of, 'native,' species is spurious. All species have been introduced from outside the area since the end of the last Ice Age. Canada Geese have been resident in England since the 1600s. There is no evidence that they pose a threat to any other species on Windermere. They are here, they are sentient creatures and it is totally unnecessary to kill them.[/p][/quote]The question of sentience is a philosophical issue and not relevant in this argument - otherwise the argument broadens out to any form of killing by any species over any other, and brings into question vegitarianism, veganism, farming and even natural predation. What is relevant here is that these geese are non-native and are having a detrimental impact on Windermere's biodiversity. I am happy to take my scientific evidence from the expert groups who work on our behalf. They certainly have more credibility than most of the comments from individuals on this article. Pie Woman PieWoman
  • Score: 0

1:12pm Thu 9 Feb 12

Beatrix Potter says...

Pie Woman, Canada Geese are sentient beings, as are we. That is fact, so how can it be a philosophical issue? If the numbers of Canada Geese must be reduced, and that is what's being debated here, please let it be carried out humanely, as described above by Lady Tilly Windermere. We wouldn't want someone coming into our homes and shooting our partner, ourself and any unborn offsprings. How can this be sanctioned for Canada Geese, when there are other ways of controlling their numbers?
Pie Woman, Canada Geese are sentient beings, as are we. That is fact, so how can it be a philosophical issue? If the numbers of Canada Geese must be reduced, and that is what's being debated here, please let it be carried out humanely, as described above by Lady Tilly Windermere. We wouldn't want someone coming into our homes and shooting our partner, ourself and any unborn offsprings. How can this be sanctioned for Canada Geese, when there are other ways of controlling their numbers? Beatrix Potter
  • Score: 0

2:50pm Thu 9 Feb 12

PieWoman says...

Beatrix Potter wrote:
Pie Woman, Canada Geese are sentient beings, as are we. That is fact, so how can it be a philosophical issue? If the numbers of Canada Geese must be reduced, and that is what's being debated here, please let it be carried out humanely, as described above by Lady Tilly Windermere. We wouldn't want someone coming into our homes and shooting our partner, ourself and any unborn offsprings. How can this be sanctioned for Canada Geese, when there are other ways of controlling their numbers?
Of course geese are sentient beings, I never said they weren't. And I agree with you that culling should be humane, I never said it shouldn't be.

I suggest you have another read of what I posted - and spend a bit longer thinking about it this time.

The quality of the debate on here is pitiful.

Pie Woman
[quote][p][bold]Beatrix Potter[/bold] wrote: Pie Woman, Canada Geese are sentient beings, as are we. That is fact, so how can it be a philosophical issue? If the numbers of Canada Geese must be reduced, and that is what's being debated here, please let it be carried out humanely, as described above by Lady Tilly Windermere. We wouldn't want someone coming into our homes and shooting our partner, ourself and any unborn offsprings. How can this be sanctioned for Canada Geese, when there are other ways of controlling their numbers?[/p][/quote]Of course geese are sentient beings, I never said they weren't. And I agree with you that culling should be humane, I never said it shouldn't be. I suggest you have another read of what I posted - and spend a bit longer thinking about it this time. The quality of the debate on here is pitiful. Pie Woman PieWoman
  • Score: 0

3:06pm Thu 9 Feb 12

henryalex says...

Pie Woman, you criticise the debate but what is your contribution? Gross generalisations without any scientific evidence to substantiate your assertions. Lake Windermere water quality has been and is being extensively researched by numerous environmental agencies and university departments. Many of the results of which are readily available on the internet. Also readily available, as Lady Tully has said, are scientific findings regarding Canada Geese. There is no scientific proof that the current population of Canada Geese on Windermere pose any threat to the environment or other species.
Pie Woman, you criticise the debate but what is your contribution? Gross generalisations without any scientific evidence to substantiate your assertions. Lake Windermere water quality has been and is being extensively researched by numerous environmental agencies and university departments. Many of the results of which are readily available on the internet. Also readily available, as Lady Tully has said, are scientific findings regarding Canada Geese. There is no scientific proof that the current population of Canada Geese on Windermere pose any threat to the environment or other species. henryalex
  • Score: 0

11:27pm Thu 9 Feb 12

lakesailor says...

MarionA wrote:
I did some research on Windermere Lake and see it is a huge tourist and holiday area. Animal lovers spending money on holidays would like to know what businesses in this area support the geese or support the killing of them so we can avoid these businesses or maybe we need to avoid Windermere Lake totally. I hope someone can do some canvassing of local businesses, hotels, etc and post this information on the Tripadvisor site for Windermere Lake businesses, hotels, etc. I wouldn't waste my money on anyone who supports killing Canada geese.
Sounds like you know a lot about the area. Huh


They are a nuisance and need controlling. Visitors like goose dung on their shoes a lot less than any worry about waterfowl welfare.
Animal lovers may not be the majority of visitors to the Lake District, unless they also leave tin cans and plastic bags full of rubbish over every hedge and in every verge.
The LDNPA could usefully get rid of a load of the gulls that mess all over boats as well, whilst they are on the job.
[quote][p][bold]MarionA[/bold] wrote: I did some research on Windermere Lake and see it is a huge tourist and holiday area. Animal lovers spending money on holidays would like to know what businesses in this area support the geese or support the killing of them so we can avoid these businesses or maybe we need to avoid Windermere Lake totally. I hope someone can do some canvassing of local businesses, hotels, etc and post this information on the Tripadvisor site for Windermere Lake businesses, hotels, etc. I wouldn't waste my money on anyone who supports killing Canada geese.[/p][/quote]Sounds like you know a lot about the area. Huh They are a nuisance and need controlling. Visitors like goose dung on their shoes a lot less than any worry about waterfowl welfare. Animal lovers may not be the majority of visitors to the Lake District, unless they also leave tin cans and plastic bags full of rubbish over every hedge and in every verge. The LDNPA could usefully get rid of a load of the gulls that mess all over boats as well, whilst they are on the job. lakesailor
  • Score: 0

1:01am Fri 10 Feb 12

lakesdream says...

Many residents think that boat users on Windermere need controlling. Diesel pollution of the Lake, noise pollution, stirring up sediments, plenty of litter and sewage from boats, fishing lines and weights discarded. Don't blame birds they have as much right to be there as you and not causing as much damage to the environment. We have the privelege of living in the area and I consider the guardianship of it. Vistors have every right to enjoy it too. I agree that visitors need to be educated in conservation and should be penalised if they drop litter etc. but we all have to learn to co exist and that includes with the birds.
Many residents think that boat users on Windermere need controlling. Diesel pollution of the Lake, noise pollution, stirring up sediments, plenty of litter and sewage from boats, fishing lines and weights discarded. Don't blame birds they have as much right to be there as you and not causing as much damage to the environment. We have the privelege of living in the area and I consider the guardianship of it. Vistors have every right to enjoy it too. I agree that visitors need to be educated in conservation and should be penalised if they drop litter etc. but we all have to learn to co exist and that includes with the birds. lakesdream
  • Score: 0

5:49pm Fri 17 Feb 12

lakesailor says...

lakesdream wrote:
Many residents think that boat users on Windermere need controlling. Diesel pollution of the Lake, noise pollution, stirring up sediments, plenty of litter and sewage from boats, fishing lines and weights discarded. Don't blame birds they have as much right to be there as you and not causing as much damage to the environment. We have the privelege of living in the area and I consider the guardianship of it. Vistors have every right to enjoy it too. I agree that visitors need to be educated in conservation and should be penalised if they drop litter etc. but we all have to learn to co exist and that includes with the birds.
"Many residents think that boat users on Windermere need controlling. Diesel pollution of the Lake, noise pollution, stirring up sediments, plenty of litter and sewage from boats, fishing lines and weights discarded."
Any proof to go with these wild accusations?
Sewage is not discharged from boats. It is illegal.
Diesel? Where?
Noise? I sail regularly and the only noise I hear, strangely, is the geese.
Litter? How can you assume it is from boats?
Fishing line and weights? That's an angling issue, not a boating issue.
[quote][p][bold]lakesdream[/bold] wrote: Many residents think that boat users on Windermere need controlling. Diesel pollution of the Lake, noise pollution, stirring up sediments, plenty of litter and sewage from boats, fishing lines and weights discarded. Don't blame birds they have as much right to be there as you and not causing as much damage to the environment. We have the privelege of living in the area and I consider the guardianship of it. Vistors have every right to enjoy it too. I agree that visitors need to be educated in conservation and should be penalised if they drop litter etc. but we all have to learn to co exist and that includes with the birds.[/p][/quote]"Many residents think that boat users on Windermere need controlling. Diesel pollution of the Lake, noise pollution, stirring up sediments, plenty of litter and sewage from boats, fishing lines and weights discarded." Any proof to go with these wild accusations? Sewage is not discharged from boats. It is illegal. Diesel? Where? Noise? I sail regularly and the only noise I hear, strangely, is the geese. Litter? How can you assume it is from boats? Fishing line and weights? That's an angling issue, not a boating issue. lakesailor
  • Score: 0

Comments are closed on this article.

Send us your news, pictures and videos

Most read stories

Local Info

Enter your postcode, town or place name

About cookies

We want you to enjoy your visit to our website. That's why we use cookies to enhance your experience. By staying on our website you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more about the cookies we use.

I agree