Re-think hope over plans to cull Canada geese on Windermere

7:50am Thursday 1st March 2012 in Bowness news Photograph of the Author By Steven Bell, Senior Reporter

GROWING condemnation over plans to cull 200 Canada geese on Windermere has sparked a re-think by national park bosses.

Staunch opponents of the proposal handed over a 2,600-signature petition to the Lake District National Park Authority this week, urging it to ‘stop this blood bath now’.

Plans to shoot the birds this spring, after complaints from landowners about geese eating crops and claims their droppings harm Windermere’s water quality, have caused uproar among conservationists, animal charities, and celebrities.

In a face-to-face showdown with the LDNPA’s park services director Bob Cartwright, placard-waving protesters called on the authority to ‘listen to public opinion’ and consider non-lethal methods of control.

LDNPA ranger Steve Tatlock this week revealed that the geese management group would ‘review its decision in light of presentations made to the authority’.

It comes as senior management at Cumbria Tourism prepare to discuss the issue ‘in depth’ at a meeting today.

Petition organiser Neil Ryding, who warned the cull would put tourists off visiting the area, said the LDNPA’s review showed ‘there was hope’.

“I’m absolutely delighted,” he said. “If this means the geese are going to be saved, that’s the whole reason we started the petition.”

Related links

However, Mr Tatlock told the Gazette that people had reported problems caused by Canada geese near Coniston Water and Grasmere.

He said: “I have heard, anecdotally, that farmers in the Rydal and Grasmere areas are struggling to make economic use of the land.”

Mr Tatlock could not say whether a cull would be extended, as geese numbers on other lakes were not known, but said he hoped counts would take place in the future.

Since the Gazette first revealed the plan, the RSPCA and Animal Aid have joined in widespread criticism, and won the backing of celebrity bird watcher Bill Oddie and Queen guitarist Brian May.

They argue there is ‘little evidence’ the geese are to blame for lake pollution.

Geese management group member Dr Ian Winfield admitted there was no ‘scientific evidence’ about the effects of the birds on Windermere.

Defending the cull, he said decision-makers could ‘transfer experiences’ from other places to make a ‘professional judgement’.

Kathy Musker, of Respect for Wildlife, said: “This slaughter will be detrimental to tourism, and turn a beautiful part of the country into a blood bath.”

Campaigners want humane methods of bird control used, including egg ‘oiling’ to prevent hatching, and using sheepdogs to round up the birds and make them fly elsewhere.

Comments(60)

twitchy says...
1:18pm Thu 1 Mar 12

The cull would certainly affect tourism. Who wants to visit a National Park that kills its own wildlife. Such is the strength of feeling about this issue there will be more petitions and demonstrations in the tourist "hotspots".
I would advise the LDNPA to withdraw its plan to cull the Geese and step up management by non lethal means if the Geese numbers are a problem in some areas.
Perhaps consider rounding them up and taking them to the more remote lakes-some though very pretty are rather sterile and could do with some birdlife.

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lakesailor says...
1:52pm Thu 1 Mar 12

"Perhaps consider rounding them up and taking them to the more remote lakes"
You don't actually know much about these creatures do you?

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Mrs A Bath says...
1:56pm Thu 1 Mar 12

This issue has been commented on at length - under the article from last week detailing Brian May's involvement (search "Brian May Geese"). As you will see from the comments, there is a significant amount of support for the LDNPA, and the need to be able to manage the geese numbers. Plus, if 2600 signitures is all the anti's can muster in the age of global electronic communication - perspective is needed.

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WilliamT says...
2:07pm Thu 1 Mar 12

I tended to believe the Park Authority, so the intervention of someone (if true) like Bill Oddie is significant. I understood the RSPCA previously approved the cull?

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robiin says...
2:34pm Thu 1 Mar 12

If anyone is interested in getting the statements from Bill Oddie and the RSPCA showing they are fully against the cull they only have to e mail respectforwildlife@o
range.net or go on to the Animal Aid website where they can clearly be seen. The RSPCA CERTAINLY DID NOT approve the cull. If those who think the geese numbers need reducing think that shooting them will acheive this they need to research this issue. Apart from the ethical issues, it has been proven that culling increases a flock as other birds move in (probably more fertile, younger birds) and the flocks increase. The Geese Management Group are NOT experts in bird control and are just a group of people with 'common interests', for that read 'landowners with financial interests only'. Ignorance re this issue will mean birds will needlessley die year after year (this cull is intended to be the first of many). As for the comment re the petition above, it is still open and growing. The vast majority of people would listen to thousands of members of the public who have signed this petition from all over the world, are they not the people to whom the Lake District earns it's living? Tourists!!! As for the somment' there is significant support for the LDNPA' where? Suspect that poster is one of the LDNPA themselves!!

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WilliamT says...
3:00pm Thu 1 Mar 12

You're attacking the wrong man! I was actually signalling that I might have been wrong in my previous support. I had hoped for something more impressive from Oddie than a 'tweet', which can't be taken seriously. I think it may have been the RSPB which supported the cull.

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TwoHat says...
3:06pm Thu 1 Mar 12

It seems that a vocal, well organised minority can achieve almost anything. What a pity they don't apply their lobbying skills to the important issues threatening society at present.

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robiin says...
5:30pm Thu 1 Mar 12

It would seem that 'Mrs Bath' above is giving herself (himself) away by using the term 'anti's. Never heard any member of the public use that expression, normally used by those who hunt or shoot. Probably someone with a vested interest calling themselves Mrs Bath! Not attacking you William T, just saying that you only have to google to find out who is speaking out against this cull and a tweet is a comment like any other, which shows someones views on a subject. As for the comment by TwoHat, same old same old, tired type of comment that is used against anyone trying to help animals in any way. You usually find those who help animals also DO campaign against other important issues, it is not an either or situation, I have found though that people who make such comments, never do anything about anything themselves just sit at home and make ill informed judgements. There are many important issues threatening society at present and this is one of them. It shows the ethics and morals of a publicly funded body.

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Mrs A Bath says...
6:25pm Thu 1 Mar 12

Well Robiin, as you have presented yourself you had better declare your qualifications. Anti's was the shortest form I knew to some up people who oppose any sort of cull management, and your credibility can be severely dented when I tell you I don't hunt, never have, but respect the choice of others to do so. Please, new readers, read the posts on the previous article, the arguments from the anti's are impossible to adopt, and flawed on so many levels, and although a few get nasty, their intentions are good. Just ill considered. It also includes posts that show the RSPB also have to manage bird numbers some time.

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robiin says...
6:43pm Thu 1 Mar 12

Mrs (or Mr) Bath, not fooling me I'm afraid, The RSPB are no bird protectors as we know, so citing them does your argument no good. This comment of ' I don't hunt but respect the choice of others to do so' is very often used by hunt supporters and the fact that you condone it shows your ilk. Anyone with any compassion, scientific knowledge and a conscience would condemn this and any other cull.
Your patronising comment that us 'anti' people have good intentions is laughable. Conservationists who have done their own counts of geese on this lake and the largest animal welfare organisation in the UK, RSPCA, have all come out against this cull and the LDNPA themselves have said they have NOT DONE any specific studies regarding the effect of Canada Geese on local habitat' and you state the 'anti's' arguments are flawed, what a joke!

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Mrs A Bath says...
7:34pm Thu 1 Mar 12

Again readers, we/I have had this "shout down" intimidation on the other threads, and ignored it. I'd only commented originally in support for the need for the LDNPA and private landowners/farmers to do what they thought necessary, without Brian May trying to run the park's policies from where ever he lives. This issue does bring out a type of angry sort though, those with an unrealistic anthropomorphic beliefs. Quite unrestrained when attacking people and alternative views though, as seen. Well, Robiin, we won't go away, 2600 signatures is tiny and given the memberships of all the organisations you've name checked, pretty poor. I have greater faith in people than you do, and feel comfortable with those who choose to hunt, shoot or own a cat, all involve killing but only one is indiscriminate.

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robiin says...
7:45pm Thu 1 Mar 12

'Anyone with any compassion, scientific knowledge and a conscience would condemn this and any other cull'
Mrs Bath, I did not include you in the above as you clearly do not have a conscience. BTW if you would like to see what real 'intimidation' is you need to follow some hunt monitors and see what type of thuggish intimidation they suffer at the hands of your mates in the hunting fraternity who are doing nothing more than filming their law breaking.
The usual words of a person who promotes animal abuse are used above such as 'anthropomorphic'. For this read 'decent people who do not wish to see other sentient beings slaughtered for totally unscientific reasons.'
Sleep well Mrs Bath

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twitchy says...
7:46pm Thu 1 Mar 12

The Bath person wants the Geese "repatriated" to Canada and cats got rid of completely!
No flaw in that arguement then!
Oh and if you don't agree you are obviously "selfish, needy people"another Bathism....see Brian May opposes cull of Windermere Geese.

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Reverend Mark says...
10:02pm Thu 1 Mar 12

""The Bath person wants the Geese "repatriated" to Canada and cats got rid of completely!
No flaw in that arguement then!""

It was you, Twitchy, that siad "Perhaps consider rounding them up and taking them to the more remote lakes-some though very pretty are rather sterile and could do with some birdlife."

No science there then.

How do you think the Canadas go to Windermere in the first place? They certainly didn't fly.

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twitchy says...
10:20pm Thu 1 Mar 12

Did they swim?

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robiin says...
10:21pm Thu 1 Mar 12

Full of kindness eh REV Mark. What next, which member of LNDPA will we get commenting under an assumed name? If you are interested in science then don't ask the Geese Management Group. They know as much about the science of this as my 3 year old!

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Speliologist says...
1:49pm Fri 2 Mar 12

As i understand it, the cull is intended to remove 200 Canada Geese from Windermere. For a body of water this size, it's very hard to see just how much "good" that would do. It's also very hard to see how the feces of 200 birds, being bio-degradable and readily soluble in the lake water, can do anything other than enrich the environment.

For the correspondent who proposed rounding them up and shipping them elsewhere, it should be pointed out that these are wild geese, not farmyard birds. They can and do fly very well, covering thousands of miles in their annual migrations. They also swim very well. So if you think you can herd them around as though you were the little goose girl, think again!

If a real motive for this proposed cull is needed, then perhaps it should be pointed out that geese, unlike foxes, are edible.

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MarionA says...
6:24pm Fri 2 Mar 12

Well the geese may be considered 'edible' by some but certainly not everyone...they are sponges for environmental toxins, ie pesticides and there are health advisories about eating wild canada goose. In recent article on poaching in England there was this comment "….”Mark Dixon, from the Birmingham and Black Country Wildlife Trust, said: “There would be a health public concern with this issue. These animals would not necessarily be the best things to consume.”

http://www.birmingha
mmail.net/news/top-s
tories/2012/02/04/po
achers-target-ducks-
and-geese-at-queslet
t-nature-reserve-in-
birmingham-97319-302
63435/#ixzz1lRcwUe9F

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MarionA says...
6:27pm Fri 2 Mar 12

Canada goose poop is the least of Lake Windermere's pollution concerns.

Lake Windermere is being polluted by pesticides and fertilisers from farming, New Zealand Pigmyweed imported in 1911 is choking other wildlife and the lake is threatened with drought and flooding due to climate change. Other lakes around the UK are suffering similar problems.
http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/earth/earthne
ws/5345899/Lake-Wind
ermere-is-polluted-s
ay-environment-watch
dogs.html

Dr Stephen Maberly works for the Centre for Ecology and Hydrology. He'll tell you that roughly half the phosphates in Windermere come from the sewage works, and half from the land.
"Farmers will put fertiliser on their fields, and some of that will wash into the lake. Humans use detergents and dishwasher tablets, and human waste too will feed into the lake."

http://news.bbc.co.u
k/local/cumbria/hi/p
eople_and_places/nat
ure/newsid_8686000/8
686512.stm

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MarionA says...
6:33pm Fri 2 Mar 12

The LDNPA stated they were going to shoot 200 nesting geese...even though other documents on the website for Lake District National Park say killing nesting geese will likely just open up spots for next years mating geese to move in to nest. They already know killing nesting geese will create a vacuum for next year and have a five year plan in mind.

And as a Canadian I would never visit anyplace that showed itself unfriendly to animals and particularly when it involves demonizing innocent birds like the Canada geese here.

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twitchy says...
9:23pm Fri 2 Mar 12

My comment about rounding up the Geese was tongue in cheek, though sheepdogs have been used to move them away from sites not considered ideal.
I mentioned the effect on tourism because the Cumbria Tourist Board are meeting to have an "in depth" discussion on the proposed cull and whether it will affect visitor numbers.
If it hasn't had an impact yet then the demonstrations that will follow certainly will.
A National Park can't on the one hand promote its wildlife whilst the other is on the trigger of a gun.
The LDNPA should set an example, reject the cull and manage the geese using only non lethal methods.

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timbermagic says...
2:54am Sat 3 Mar 12

having farmed on the shores of windermere for many years i have seen the damage these geese do . for those of you who do not want action taken then feel free to go and invite them to your lawn . removing 200 will not have any effect . we shot this many 1 year and no less geese came . so the number needs to be increased or do not bother .

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robiin says...
10:28am Sat 3 Mar 12

As the above comment from a bird killer shows, 'removing 200 geese will have no effect', yes that is what people are telling the LNDPA, yet non lethal controls done extensively and effectively (not in the amateurish way they have already tried)will work. What does the above comment suggest, we blast everything and wipe out an entire species! We do not own this planet we SHARE it with other species. It's all about money and this cull is too, it is about wealthy landowners getting their puppets at the LDNPA to to their dirty work (and some of them, one ranger in particular,seemingly can't wait)!!

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henryalex says...
12:06pm Sat 3 Mar 12

timbermagic, did you have a license for shooting the geese? if you didn't you can be prosecuted under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1991. If found guilty there is up to a £5,000 fine and 6 months imprisonment possible.

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timbermagic says...
12:21am Sun 4 Mar 12

i had as much license as the geese did to eat all my grass . and we are not talking a few handfuls but enough to feed a lot of milk cows . and back then when this was done we did get permission to kill them out of season . one a week , as if that was going to have any effect . so to all you do gooders get yourselves some boxes and take the **** things away home with you

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Beverley Kirwan says...
1:13am Sun 4 Mar 12

Some people won't be happy until there are no animals left except those which are commercial commodities.

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henryalex says...
11:32am Sun 4 Mar 12

You previously said that you shot 200 geese in a year timbermagic so there is inconsistency in your comments. If it was so long ago there were not as many geese on Windermere. Even now there are around 700 spread over 17,000m of shore. Or do you now realise that you have admitted committing an offence?

If you were only allowed to shoot one goose a week out of season how did you manage to shoot 200 legally?

You get thousands of pounds in subsidies already, you can probably get more any way for protecting wild life on what will be a small proportion of your land.

Sounds to me like you are over exaggerating how many geese are on your land because you want to go out shooting.

Have you read what Stratford upon Avon did to reduce geese numbers from 700 to 100 in the town centre without harming any birds?

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Ladyxxmacbeth says...
1:19pm Sun 4 Mar 12

Wow!

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artisanfood says...
6:01pm Sun 4 Mar 12

A simple message to the Lake District National Park Authority.

"Kill the cull do not kill our Wildlife" - filmed on the shores of Grasmere, maybe the geese here too are in the firing line

bit.ly/wozgwz

If you care about this issue, spread the link above far and wide.

Thank you.

Martin - Grasmere

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Kendal Scot says...
6:37pm Sun 4 Mar 12

Well said 'Timbermagic'
Our life is being taken over by the
do-gooder brigade. I'll bet, most of them are anti-hunt as well.
If only they could see real life as it is, rather than through their rose tinted bi-focals.

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robiin says...
7:00pm Sun 4 Mar 12

Such arrogant and patronising comments as above ar not unusual from those who wish to abuse animals. If people challenge cruelty they are have 'soe coloured bi-focals' eh Kendal Scot. As for being anti hunt, so are 80% of the public, it is just you and your fellow animal abusers who wish to continue with this archiac and barbaric pastime. Showing you rue colours aren't you! Our life will not be taken over by a minority of animal abusers, such as you. Decent people will always be there to challenge cruelty, get use to it you old fossil!

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henryalex says...
8:57pm Sun 4 Mar 12

Martin, I can't find the link which you provided. Is it possible to give us another one?

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artisanfood says...
4:21pm Mon 5 Mar 12

Henryalex

The comments box does not allow clickable links. You have to cut and paste the link I posted. It is on the line below. (Just put it in your browser and press return)

bit.ly/wozgwz

Martin

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twitchy says...
4:57pm Mon 5 Mar 12

Hi Martin can't get the url to work either.
Isn't bit.ly a shortened form of url for mobile phones, do you need an ap. for it?

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lakesailor says...
5:05pm Mon 5 Mar 12

"Techonfear Causes Campaign Hiccup"

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twitchy says...
7:48pm Mon 5 Mar 12

lakesailor wrote:
"Techonfear Causes Campaign Hiccup"
In your dreams, Ranger!

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henryalex says...
8:53pm Mon 5 Mar 12

Thank you Martin, got it to work.

This is the link if anyone can't get it :
http://cumbrialive.t
v/loadplayer-bl-smal
l.htm?config1=file/g
et/MartinCampbell-Ki
llTheCull844.mp4

The film is absolutely beautiful Martin. I am forwarding to all my friends and contacts. You have encapsulated the beauty of the Lakes and wild life so movingly and the message is so clear.

Today being in the Lakes is like being in Heaven, sunshine, snow on the hills, beautiful night sky.. Watched sunset from Castlerigg Stone Circle.

We don't want this beautiful, special place tainted by this proposed cull.

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Reverend Mark says...
8:23am Tue 6 Mar 12

Like being in Heaven, yes, but with the honking and clatter of an alien species.

Why is there no similar expressed feelings against other ongoing or past culls - grey squirrels, deer, signal crayfish, top mouth gudgeon? All these have or are happening in the National Park.

Why does the controlled management of one species over another evoke such strong feeling?

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henryalex says...
10:04am Tue 6 Mar 12

Reverend Mark I did not know that there had been other culls and I don't think many other people did. now you have informed the public that the LDNP regularly operate slaughter, if it is true, will I am sure illicit further campaigns.

Canada Geese are not alien species. They were brought here in the 1600s. As discussed previously, all animal, plant and human life has been imported to the Lake District since the Ice Age. I don't see you objecting to farmed animals which were not here first being bred here.

Additionally, where are all these geese? Clive Hartley said that the LDNA had greatly exaggerated their numbers.

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twitchy says...
2:27pm Tue 6 Mar 12

There are too many landowners ,farmers and huntsmen running the LDNPA a complete lack of balance. They would like to have a pristine, sterile National Park with only sheep, cattle and other introduced farmed species. The Canada Geese have no "commercial" value so to most of the LDNPA they are disposable.
Time to dispose of the LDNPA perhaps.

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PieWoman says...
2:37pm Tue 6 Mar 12

To henryalex, twitchy, Robiin, MarionA.

Your have made a lot of noise on this thread, but there are only four of you. Those of us who disagree with your views have noticed that you are a vocal minority.

PieWoman

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henryalex says...
3:27pm Tue 6 Mar 12

Yet again a non factual assessment!

If you look at this thread the following are pro cull contributors :
Pie woman
timbermagic
Speliologist
Mrs Bath
Kendal Scot
Two Hat
Reverand Mark

The following are anti cull :
Marian A
twitchy
Robin
artisanfood
Beverley Kirwan
LadyxxMacbeth
henryalex

William T does not clearly fit into either, 'camp.'

Pro cull are just as vociferous. Yet another desperate attempt to clutch at straws because you are losing the argument Piewoman.

The number of contributors does not reflect the quality of the argument. There has been a continuous stream of unsubstantiated generalisations made by the pro cull contributors countered by scientific fact by the anti cull contributors.

Anyone in the media will tell you that on any contentious issue there is a vocal minority who will contribute to a forum such as this but to test public opinion is a different matter. There has, to my knowledge, been no reliable measure in this issue but anecdotally there is a lot of unease locally about this cull. The Lake District Tourist Board are certainly worried as bad publicity has been spread nationally and internationally. People asumed that the Lake District was a haven for wild life. People have also been shocked at how polluted Windermere is.

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lakesdream says...
3:40pm Tue 6 Mar 12

I contributed to earlier forums about the cull and i have been reading comments on this forum with interest. I felt that I did not need to comment further as the people who represent my views about this horrific proposed cull are doing such a stirling job. In all of the discussion so far no one shred of evidence has been presented to show that the geese are causing any harm, even the LDNP admit this. It sounds to me that the people who suport the cull are looking for an excuse to go out hunting and shooting. Myself, many other people in the locality and tourists love the geese.

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PieWoman says...
3:48pm Tue 6 Mar 12

henryalex wrote:
Yet again a non factual assessment!

If you look at this thread the following are pro cull contributors :
Pie woman
timbermagic
Speliologist
Mrs Bath
Kendal Scot
Two Hat
Reverand Mark

The following are anti cull :
Marian A
twitchy
Robin
artisanfood
Beverley Kirwan
LadyxxMacbeth
henryalex

William T does not clearly fit into either, 'camp.'

Pro cull are just as vociferous. Yet another desperate attempt to clutch at straws because you are losing the argument Piewoman.

The number of contributors does not reflect the quality of the argument. There has been a continuous stream of unsubstantiated generalisations made by the pro cull contributors countered by scientific fact by the anti cull contributors.

Anyone in the media will tell you that on any contentious issue there is a vocal minority who will contribute to a forum such as this but to test public opinion is a different matter. There has, to my knowledge, been no reliable measure in this issue but anecdotally there is a lot of unease locally about this cull. The Lake District Tourist Board are certainly worried as bad publicity has been spread nationally and internationally. People asumed that the Lake District was a haven for wild life. People have also been shocked at how polluted Windermere is.
henryalex,

Your unnecessarily heated response implies that you don't feel that I am entitled to my view?

Are you anti-democratic?

PieWoman

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twitchy says...
6:22pm Tue 6 Mar 12

PieWoman wrote:
henryalex wrote:
Yet again a non factual assessment!

If you look at this thread the following are pro cull contributors :
Pie woman
timbermagic
Speliologist
Mrs Bath
Kendal Scot
Two Hat
Reverand Mark

The following are anti cull :
Marian A
twitchy
Robin
artisanfood
Beverley Kirwan
LadyxxMacbeth
henryalex

William T does not clearly fit into either, 'camp.'

Pro cull are just as vociferous. Yet another desperate attempt to clutch at straws because you are losing the argument Piewoman.

The number of contributors does not reflect the quality of the argument. There has been a continuous stream of unsubstantiated generalisations made by the pro cull contributors countered by scientific fact by the anti cull contributors.

Anyone in the media will tell you that on any contentious issue there is a vocal minority who will contribute to a forum such as this but to test public opinion is a different matter. There has, to my knowledge, been no reliable measure in this issue but anecdotally there is a lot of unease locally about this cull. The Lake District Tourist Board are certainly worried as bad publicity has been spread nationally and internationally. People asumed that the Lake District was a haven for wild life. People have also been shocked at how polluted Windermere is.
henryalex,

Your unnecessarily heated response implies that you don't feel that I am entitled to my view?

Are you anti-democratic?

PieWoman
If you don't like the heat, stay out of the kitchen!

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PieWoman says...
7:21pm Tue 6 Mar 12

Twitchy: "If you don't like the heat, stay out of the kitchen!"

Pathetic. Grow up.

PieWoman

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twitchy says...
8:53pm Tue 6 Mar 12

PieWoman wrote:
Twitchy: "If you don't like the heat, stay out of the kitchen!"

Pathetic. Grow up.

PieWoman
Ouch! Bit heated that! Seems like I'm not entitled to comment-how democratic is that!
This site is for people who want to discuss, argue or comment on a selected topic. Its not just a platform for PieWoman. So you can expect that some peoples responses will disagree with yours and might be direct in doing so. It pays to be in possession of the facts before you post.

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lakesailor says...
12:04am Wed 7 Mar 12

"There has been a continuous stream of unsubstantiated generalisations made by the pro cull contributors countered by scientific fact by the anti cull contributors."
Oh Oh! The same diatribe profered by the Man Made Global Warmists before all that started tumbling around their ears.

"The Lake District Tourist Board are certainly worried as bad publicity has been spread nationally and internationally." By who exactly? Why, by you and a fading boy band member.

Actually. Killing 200 from over a 1000 will make little difference. I am not that bothered, but you lot are really getting steamed up about a blink in the history of nature.
Why not channel your efforts into something of importance?

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lakesailor says...
12:05am Wed 7 Mar 12

"There has been a continuous stream of unsubstantiated generalisations made by the pro cull contributors countered by scientific fact by the anti cull contributors."
Oh Oh! The same diatribe profered by the Man Made Global Warmists before all that started tumbling around their ears.

"The Lake District Tourist Board are certainly worried as bad publicity has been spread nationally and internationally." By who exactly? Why, by you and a fading boy band member.

Actually. Killing 200 from over a 1000 will make little difference. I am not that bothered, but you lot are really getting steamed up about a blink in the history of nature.
Why not channel your efforts into something of importance?

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lakesdream says...
12:37am Wed 7 Mar 12

Some people care about the suffering which these poor birds will endure if the unecessary cull goes ahead. To have compassion for living creatures has always shown humanity's highest values. Hardly a matter of small importance.

"True benevolence or compassion, extends itself through the whole of existence and sympathizes with the distress of every creature capable of sensation."
-- Joseph Addison

The question is not, "Can they reason?" nor, "Can they talk?" but rather, "Can they suffer?"
~Jeremy Bentham

"Love of animals is a universal impulse, a common ground on which all of us may meet. By loving and understanding animals, perhaps we humans shall come to understand each other."
-- Louis J. Camuti

"We cannot have peace among men whose hearts delight in killing any living creature. By every act that glorifies or even tolerates such moronic delight in killing we set back the progress of humanity."
-- Rachel Carson

"The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man."
-- Charles Darwin

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men."
-- Leonardo Da Vinci

"If a man aspires towards a righteous life, his first act of abstinence is from injury to animals."

"Our task must be to free ourselves... by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."
-- Albert Einstein--

2Not to hurt our humble brethren (the animals) is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission--to be of service to them whenever they require it... If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men."
-- Saint Francis of Assisi

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WilliamT says...
8:43am Wed 7 Mar 12

I was described above as being undecided. This is true. My natural inclination is anti-hunt, but to assume that the Park Authority consisted of people trying to do the right thing. However, some fairly convincing evidence about the source of pollution in the lake combined with intervention from Bill Oddie has caused me to wonder. I admit I don't pay any attention to the opinion of Brian May, but Queen hardly qualifies as a boy band!
Now one of the 'anti-cull' camp harms his cause by supporting the 'there is no man made global warming' barmy brigade, so you begin to wonder whether the whole cull (which I initially supported) has been put up by a few profit- seeking landowners. Now I don't know what to think.

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WilliamT says...
8:44am Wed 7 Mar 12

I was described above as being undecided. This is true. My natural inclination is anti-hunt, but to assume that the Park Authority consisted of people trying to do the right thing. However, some fairly convincing evidence about the source of pollution in the lake combined with intervention from Bill Oddie has caused me to wonder. I admit I don't pay any attention to the opinion of Brian May, but Queen hardly qualifies as a boy band!
Now one of the 'anti-cull' camp harms his cause by supporting the 'there is no man made global warming' barmy brigade, so you begin to wonder whether the whole cull (which I initially supported) has been put up by a few profit- seeking landowners. Now I don't know what to think.

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WilliamT says...
8:46am Wed 7 Mar 12

I was described above as being undecided. This is true. My natural inclination is anti-hunt, but to assume that the Park Authority consisted of people trying to do the right thing. However, some fairly convincing evidence about the source of pollution in the lake combined with intervention from Bill Oddie has caused me to wonder. I admit I don't pay any attention to the opinion of Brian May, but Queen hardly qualifies as a boy band!
Now one of the 'anti-cull' camp harms his cause by supporting the 'there is no man made global warming' barmy brigade, so you begin to wonder whether the whole cull (which I initially supported) has been put up by a few profit- seeking landowners. Now I don't know what to think.

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WilliamT says...
8:52am Wed 7 Mar 12

I was described above as being undecided. This is true. My natural inclination is anti-hunt, but to assume that the Park Authority consisted of people trying to do the right thing. However, some fairly convincing evidence about the source of pollution in the lake combined with intervention from Bill Oddie has caused me to wonder. I admit I don't pay any attention to the opinion of Brian May, but Queen hardly qualifies as a boy band!
Now one of the 'anti-cull' camp harms his cause by supporting the 'there is no man made global warming' barmy brigade, so you begin to wonder whether the whole cull (which I initially supported) has been put up by a few profit- seeking landowners. Now I don't know what to think.

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WilliamT says...
9:42am Wed 7 Mar 12

I apologise for that multiple post, which was unintentional

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twitchy says...
12:32pm Wed 7 Mar 12

lakesailor wrote:
"There has been a continuous stream of unsubstantiated generalisations made by the pro cull contributors countered by scientific fact by the anti cull contributors."
Oh Oh! The same diatribe profered by the Man Made Global Warmists before all that started tumbling around their ears.

"The Lake District Tourist Board are certainly worried as bad publicity has been spread nationally and internationally." By who exactly? Why, by you and a fading boy band member.

Actually. Killing 200 from over a 1000 will make little difference. I am not that bothered, but you lot are really getting steamed up about a blink in the history of nature.
Why not channel your efforts into something of importance?
My understanding is that the LDNPA have been culling the Geese for the last two years and plan to do so as part of a five year plan. All they have to do is announce that culling the Geese will no longer be a part of managing them and the bad publicity will fade away.....otherwise it will certainly escalate.

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lakesailor says...
1:58pm Wed 7 Mar 12

lakesdream wrote:
Some people care about the suffering which these poor birds will endure if the unecessary cull goes ahead. To have compassion for living creatures has always shown humanity's highest values. Hardly a matter of small importance.

"True benevolence or compassion, extends itself through the whole of existence and sympathizes with the distress of every creature capable of sensation."
-- Joseph Addison

The question is not, "Can they reason?" nor, "Can they talk?" but rather, "Can they suffer?"
~Jeremy Bentham

"Love of animals is a universal impulse, a common ground on which all of us may meet. By loving and understanding animals, perhaps we humans shall come to understand each other."
-- Louis J. Camuti

"We cannot have peace among men whose hearts delight in killing any living creature. By every act that glorifies or even tolerates such moronic delight in killing we set back the progress of humanity."
-- Rachel Carson

"The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man."
-- Charles Darwin

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men."
-- Leonardo Da Vinci

"If a man aspires towards a righteous life, his first act of abstinence is from injury to animals."

"Our task must be to free ourselves... by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."
-- Albert Einstein--

2Not to hurt our humble brethren (the animals) is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission--to be of service to them whenever they require it... If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men."
-- Saint Francis of Assisi
Your quotes from people long-gone don't actually address anything to do with geese on Windermere.
No distress will be caused.

Alive and alert -Bang -Dead.

No death throes, no blind panic. Professional stalkers do not go for a scatter-gun approach.

Anyway, the LDNPA are going ahead with the cull.

If you all decide to carry on publicising the matter to try and make the Lake District an unpopular destination (some hope) just WHO are you trying to damage?
The local tourist industry. That is all there is to prevent this are becoming a desolate wilderness.


Oooh. I see what your game is.....

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lakesailor says...
1:59pm Wed 7 Mar 12

twitchy wrote:
lakesailor wrote:
"Techonfear Causes Campaign Hiccup"
In your dreams, Ranger!
Dear me.
You don't know just how wrong you are.

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Roysyboy says...
6:12pm Wed 7 Mar 12

I think Windermere, etc., needs a cull of people rather than geese.

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twitchy says...
6:23pm Wed 7 Mar 12

lakesailor wrote:
twitchy wrote:
lakesailor wrote:
"Techonfear Causes Campaign Hiccup"
In your dreams, Ranger!
Dear me.
You don't know just how wrong you are.
"No death throes, no blind panic" they are not toy ducks in a shooting gallery-who are you kidding!
As for publicity it was the LDNPA decision to continue the cull and since it is of public interest it has been picked up nationally.
I think the LDNPA will end the cull only when all the Geese have been exterminated. Just adds momentum to the campaign.

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