Petition backs plans by Sainsbury's to open in Ulverston (From The Westmorland Gazette)

Geoff103 says...
10:56am Wed 27 Feb 13

Well, I'm sure there's plenty of good reasons, not the least to see more competition and choice, but the idea that "There is nowhere in Ulverston that you can do a full shop on a budget" is absurd.

The town is blessed with a good-sized branch of Booths and there is no way a 'full shop' as it is described and however constituted can possibly be cheaper in Barrow when adding on the cost of a two-way journey by car. By taxi in one reported case.

I'm sure this is yet another case that seems to afflict some people. That is, a kind of 'chip on the shoulder' prejudice towards Booths which is particularly marked amongst people who seem never to step inside one of their shops.

It is especially remarkable during the current brouhaha over traces of equine DNA in certain processed beef products, which has upset so many consumers. All the major chains have had to withdraw some products at some point in the past few weeks.

Not once has there been any media coverage of Booths having to do so.

It's sad that some shoppers just don't recognise how fortunate they are to have a supermarket of this quality on their doorstep. This small, regional chain would be welcomed with open arms by shoppers anywhere else in the country. Fortunately for us their corporate strategy appears to be stay regional and local, grow organically and avoid the homogenisation that going national would almost certainly bring.

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Hoad Hill says...
2:40pm Wed 27 Feb 13

Geoff103

Two points in response:

Sainsbury's also has had no horsemeat issues and if you believe that the difference in shopping cost is less than the the cost of the journey to Barrow then you must only do a relatively small shop which isn't the case with most of the supporters of the Sainsbury's application.

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Geoff103 says...
3:11pm Wed 27 Feb 13

Hoad Hill

Two points in response.

Sainsbury's did withdraw some frozen burger products early in the saga as a precaution.

How much is a return Taxi journey between Barrow and Ulverston? £20? I'm guessing here as it's not my neck of the woods and I haven't used a taxi in years.

But I find it hard to believe that £100 worth of groceries etc in Booths can be bought, like-for-like, for £80 in Sainsbury's.

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Hoad Hill says...
4:01pm Wed 27 Feb 13

Geoff103

Sainsbury's have announced that they have not found any horsemeat in any of the products they sell. Perhaps they are lying?

I doubt that many people use a taxi to travel to Barrow from Ulverston so can't see your point.

"But I find it hard to believe that £100 worth of groceries etc in Booths can be bought, like-for-like, for £80 in Sainsbury's."
.....How is this relevant...has anyone suggested that Sainsbury's prices will be 20% lower than Booths.
What is certain is that Sainsbury's prices are lower than Booths.

Just as a matter of interest we do a small shop in Booths on alternate weeks so we are very well aware of the high prices but I doubt there are many people who use Booths exclusively...I certainly don't know any.
If you care to read the Sainsbury's consultations, the SLDC planning pages or the current online petition, you will see the recurring theme is that Booths is quite simply too expensive for most people to use it for main food shopping. Booths has never professed to be in competition on price but it may have to review that policy sometime soon.

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Geoff103 says...
4:21pm Wed 27 Feb 13

) I never said that equine DNA had been found in Sainsbury's products. It was widely reported that products from a supplier in Ireland where traces had been found in other lines had been withdrawn 'as a precaution'.

2) I quote from the story above: " including an elderly woman who has to get taxis to Barrow and back"

3) Even using one's own car, the cost for are return trip will be of the order of £10 and could be much more depending on the original ,cost and class of car. See AA motoring costs.

4) On the basis of the £20 taxi fare, Sainsbury's would have to be 20% cheaper. I don't believe they are. Indeed the idea that Booths is expensive is simply not true. The problem for comparison is a real like-for-like. And much of Booths produce is of far superior quality.

5) My wife and I are close to being exclusive Booths shoppers. I don't see anything in our weekly basket to support claims that Booths "is simply too expensive for most people to use it for main food shopping"

6) Booths are currently running a price promotion where commonly bought branded staples are priced at the same level as ASDA, Tesco and elsewhere. As far as I am aware this is not a change in pricing but a more active promotion of what already pertained.

7) I do see shoppers emerging from elsewhere with trolley loads of ready meals, pizzas, crisps, frozen products of all varieties etc which are undoubtedly a more expensive way of feeding a household that buying fresh meat and vegetables from Booths and cooking meals oneself.

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soapbox1983 says...
6:43pm Wed 27 Feb 13

There's no point in arguing with you Geoff, evidently what ever anyone says to you, you will disagree and argue with it, you do it all of the time!!!!!

I personally have tried to do a full budget shop in Booths and it cost me more to do that because i had to go to Asda to get the things that Booths didnt stock. Youll argue this tho and make out im lying (or i dont feed my family properly which is also i LIE.) yet id say a fair proportion of the town WILL agree with me!

Now i know you will now say that i should have substituted the items, or gone to tesco metro or the coop or one of the other "SPECIAL" shops, (now youll go on about petrol prices etc, dont bother your statistical analysis bores me) but they didnt have what i needed either and i WILL NOT pay over the top prices for food in Booths.

Well done to you having the money to spend in Booths. I dont care for your opinion to be honest, you blast it about all the time anyway, youre just another person who opposes Sainsburys regardless of all the Pros to the store coming. This town needs jobs, choice, competition, an injection of life. But youre blind to the pros youre just negative and sit staring at the Cons.

You wont agree thats sainsburys is a life line to Ulverston, youll put a list of bullet points pulling apart my post and trying to make my opinion out to be the wrong one, when the fact is that both opinions are as valid as each other.

A family CANNOT shop on a budget at Booths. Unless they earn a very good living. whether Sainsburys comes or not the people who shop in Barrow will contiune to do so, thus IGNORING Ulverston.

I expect nothing but BILE back in response. It tends to be the way with the NIMBYS

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soapbox1983 says...
6:43pm Wed 27 Feb 13

There's no point in arguing with you Geoff, evidently what ever anyone says to you, you will disagree and argue with it, you do it all of the time!!!!!

I personally have tried to do a full budget shop in Booths and it cost me more to do that because i had to go to Asda to get the things that Booths didnt stock. Youll argue this tho and make out im lying (or i dont feed my family properly which is also i LIE.) yet id say a fair proportion of the town WILL agree with me!

Now i know you will now say that i should have substituted the items, or gone to tesco metro or the coop or one of the other "SPECIAL" shops, (now youll go on about petrol prices etc, dont bother your statistical analysis bores me) but they didnt have what i needed either and i WILL NOT pay over the top prices for food in Booths.

Well done to you having the money to spend in Booths. I dont care for your opinion to be honest, you blast it about all the time anyway, youre just another person who opposes Sainsburys regardless of all the Pros to the store coming. This town needs jobs, choice, competition, an injection of life. But youre blind to the pros youre just negative and sit staring at the Cons.

You wont agree thats sainsburys is a life line to Ulverston, youll put a list of bullet points pulling apart my post and trying to make my opinion out to be the wrong one, when the fact is that both opinions are as valid as each other.

A family CANNOT shop on a budget at Booths. Unless they earn a very good living. whether Sainsburys comes or not the people who shop in Barrow will contiune to do so, thus IGNORING Ulverston.

I expect nothing but BILE back in response. It tends to be the way with the NIMBYS

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jas93807 says...
7:08pm Wed 27 Feb 13

Geoff - I do not know how many people you are feeding with your weekly shop, but I can assure you from my vast experience of feeding a family of 5 on a budget of £100 a week, that it really is not possible to do so from Booths.

Within that £100 I not only need to 21 meals for 5, plus snacks, I also need to buy washing powder, toilet roll and various cleaning agents. A standard cereal in Booths is something like £2.79 - I can get a box twice the size of own brand cereal (not value) for £1.45 in Tesco. The same price differentiation applies to my cleaning materials.

Where Morrison's, Asda and Tesco often have promotions where a family size bag of fruit or veg is 50p to £1, I find myself paying twice the none promotion price in Booths for the same product.

Yes, we are lucky to have a Booths and I totally agree that the quality of their produce is second to none. Believe me, if I could afford to do all my shopping there then I would. They are getting better with their Everyday range and I really admire them for responding to the economic climate the way that they have.

However, Booths is just like most of the shops in Ulverston that sell great products - I would love to shop in them all the time but cannot afford to do so. All this on a very healthy income.

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jas93807 says...
7:19pm Wed 27 Feb 13

I also meant to add that making a 'like for like' comparison is all well and good, but an awful lot of people in this area do not have the option to buy Booths, admittedly superior, products due to a low income. They are constrained to buying cheaper goods and deserve to be able to do so without a 20 mile round trip to put money in another town's pocket.

The vast majority of people I know who support Sainsbury's coming (myself included) want it because they believe that they will then be able to use Ulverston Town Centre more often, not less. Noone wants to see the town centre die, we just have different views as to how can assure its future.

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ulverston2025 says...
8:02pm Wed 27 Feb 13

I have checked out this petition and so many people are supporting the investment Sainsburys wish to make in Ulverston. They want the brand. In addition Sainsburys want to bring lots of jobs in the store and industrial units. What a vote of confidence in Ulverston now all we need is for our Councillors to embrace this investment and jobs and give these petitioners what they want.

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Geoff103 says...
7:54am Thu 28 Feb 13

My, my, why are you all so angry?

There's no need to post twice (soapbox1983) or shout. And there's certainly no need to get so worked up about something I didn't write. If there's 'BILE' being expressed, as you put it, then I suggest you look at your own post again and wonder how you could be so intemperate when answering my remarks.

I said there are "plenty of good reasons, not the least to see more competition and choice" (or Tesco's or ASDA if they so wish) for Sainsbury's planning application to be approved. Of course, a new development that would revive a now run-down site would be an improvement for the town. But I only have to say this because you have so wilfully misunderstood my post.

I spent a good deal of my time more than a year ago arguing against those in Milnthorpe who, for selfish reasons, wished to block the planning application from Booths for a store here. Even to the point of gathering signatures from neighbours in my village and then making a case before the SLDC planning committee in person.

I would have done the same if Sainsbury's, or any of the other chains had made the application but the site in question was too small for their requirements so would not have been of interest to them.

I just take issue with the claim that a full shop is so much cheaper anywhere other than Booths as to justify a 20 mile round trip (using a taxi in the case quoted in the article). The cost of that round trip has to be covered somehow either from another household budget or by 'savings' on the shopping.

To you jas93807, I did not say my weekly grocery budget was £100. I gave that figure as an illustration that a Sainsbury's shop for the same items would have to cost £80 for the return trip to be justified.

But if price is everything and you really believe that Sainsbury's (and yes, we do shop there occasionally in their Morecambe branch) is that much cheaper, then why not shop online and have the stuff delivered? That would save you the cost of the trip to Barrow. Or even try Tesco's or ASDA online. Perhaps they deliver to Ulverston as well.

Indeed, you could abandon all the usual household brand names and go to Aldi (and yes, we do a weekly shop there in Kendal too for certain items that suit our needs and taste. Their chocolate bars are especially good as they are manufactured for Continental tastes and are richer in cocoa solids and not padded out with vegetable fat as UK brands are) but your purchases would for the most part, not be like-for-like comparison in price against the named brands in Booths, Sainsbury's or elsewhere.

Sometimes that matters, sometimes it does not.

You really cannot insist that Booths are more expensive simply because you choose to compare a different product from ASDA at a lower price against what Booths offer.

My, my, why are you all so angry? There's no need to post twice (soapbox1983) or shout. And there's certainly no need to get so worked up about something I didn't write. If there's 'BILE' being expressed, as you put it, then I suggest you look at your own post again and wonder how you could be so intemperate when answering my remarks. I said there are "plenty of good reasons, not the least to see more competition and choice" (or Tesco's or ASDA if they so wish) for Sainsbury's planning application to be approved. Of course, a new development that would revive a now run-down site would be an improvement for the town. But I only have to say this because you have so wilfully misunderstood my post. I spent a good deal of my time more than a year ago arguing against those in Milnthorpe who, for selfish reasons, wished to block the planning application from Booths for a store here. Even to the point of gathering signatures from neighbours in my village and then making a case before the SLDC planning committee in person. I would have done the same if Sainsbury's, or any of the other chains had made the application but the site in question was too small for their requirements so would not have been of interest to them. I just take issue with the claim that a full shop is so much cheaper anywhere other than Booths as to justify a 20 mile round trip (using a taxi in the case quoted in the article). The cost of that round trip has to be covered somehow either from another household budget or by 'savings' on the shopping. To you jas93807, I did not say my weekly grocery budget was £100. I gave that figure as an illustration that a Sainsbury's shop for the same items would have to cost £80 for the return trip to be justified. But if price is everything and you really believe that Sainsbury's (and yes, we do shop there occasionally in their Morecambe branch) is that much cheaper, then why not shop online and have the stuff delivered? That would save you the cost of the trip to Barrow. Or even try Tesco's or ASDA online. Perhaps they deliver to Ulverston as well. Indeed, you could abandon all the usual household brand names and go to Aldi (and yes, we do a weekly shop there in Kendal too for certain items that suit our needs and taste. Their chocolate bars are especially good as they are manufactured for Continental tastes and are richer in cocoa solids and not padded out with vegetable fat as UK brands are) but your purchases would for the most part, not be like-for-like comparison in price against the named brands in Booths, Sainsbury's or elsewhere. Sometimes that matters, sometimes it does not. You really cannot insist that Booths are more expensive simply because you choose to compare a different product from ASDA at a lower price against what Booths offer. Geoff103

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PropMeUpWithTeabags says...
8:01am Thu 28 Feb 13

If they had a sainsburys in ulverston I would be more inclined to go there. Ulverston is a nice place with lovely people and I would rather go to one in ulverston than Lancaster.
Geoff you are wrong and ill informed, booths is more expensive, the range is terrible, it's only good for small shops

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zaney5 says...
8:13am Thu 28 Feb 13

Geoff103 wrote:
Well, I'm sure there's plenty of good reasons, not the least to see more competition and choice, but the idea that "There is nowhere in Ulverston that you can do a full shop on a budget" is absurd.

The town is blessed with a good-sized branch of Booths and there is no way a 'full shop' as it is described and however constituted can possibly be cheaper in Barrow when adding on the cost of a two-way journey by car. By taxi in one reported case.

I'm sure this is yet another case that seems to afflict some people. That is, a kind of 'chip on the shoulder' prejudice towards Booths which is particularly marked amongst people who seem never to step inside one of their shops.

It is especially remarkable during the current brouhaha over traces of equine DNA in certain processed beef products, which has upset so many consumers. All the major chains have had to withdraw some products at some point in the past few weeks.

Not once has there been any media coverage of Booths having to do so.

It's sad that some shoppers just don't recognise how fortunate they are to have a supermarket of this quality on their doorstep. This small, regional chain would be welcomed with open arms by shoppers anywhere else in the country. Fortunately for us their corporate strategy appears to be stay regional and local, grow organically and avoid the homogenisation that going national would almost certainly bring.

All good points regarding Booths. Just shame that they can't lower their prices.

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onelocal says...
8:53am Thu 28 Feb 13

My, my, there was I thinking that Geoff only shopped at Harrods in Milnthorpe, and anything else including Morrisons was beneath him. Now I hear that he actually ventures into Aldi for his Continental chocolates. He will be sneaking into Morrisons across the road next to see the best fruit, vegetable and salad department in the area.

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Geoff103 says...
9:02am Thu 28 Feb 13

Your sneering comment ill becomes you, onelocal.

As for Morrison's, I never 'sneak' anywhere. Quality is a matter of taste and Morrison's don't have it.

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Geoff103 says...
9:05am Thu 28 Feb 13

"Geoff you are wrong and ill informed"

Yeah, whatever comfort blanket you want to hold onto, PropMeUpWithTeabags, if it makes you fell better.

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Kendmoor says...
10:16am Thu 28 Feb 13

*grabs popcorn*

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Kendmoor says...
10:16am Thu 28 Feb 13

(from morrisons) ;)

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onelocal says...
10:32am Thu 28 Feb 13

There you go again, Geoff. Opinionated as ever. You don't know me, so how would you know what ill becomes me.
I also shop at Booths, and occasionally sneak into Morrisons, and can assure you that you are very wrong about price differences between the two. Morrisons are very much lower cost on a like for like basis than Booths. Since their redevelopment, Morrisons have an impressive range of fresh products, and I see Booths in Kendal have even made a half-hearted attempt to imitate Morrisons exotic vegetable range. After fresh goods, everything else is identical, except that Morrisons carry a much wider range because of their size, at a lower cost. As for taste, a tin of Heinz baked beans tastes the same wherever you buy it, or were you referring to taste as in class.

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Geoff103 says...
11:12am Thu 28 Feb 13

What are 'Baked Beans'?

;-)

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zaney5 says...
11:33am Thu 28 Feb 13

Kendmoor wrote:
(from morrisons) ;)

I presume Geoffs will be gold plated?

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jas93807 says...
11:33am Thu 28 Feb 13

Geoff103 wrote:
My, my, why are you all so angry?

There's no need to post twice (soapbox1983) or shout. And there's certainly no need to get so worked up about something I didn't write. If there's 'BILE' being expressed, as you put it, then I suggest you look at your own post again and wonder how you could be so intemperate when answering my remarks.

I said there are "plenty of good reasons, not the least to see more competition and choice" (or Tesco's or ASDA if they so wish) for Sainsbury's planning application to be approved. Of course, a new development that would revive a now run-down site would be an improvement for the town. But I only have to say this because you have so wilfully misunderstood my post.

I spent a good deal of my time more than a year ago arguing against those in Milnthorpe who, for selfish reasons, wished to block the planning application from Booths for a store here. Even to the point of gathering signatures from neighbours in my village and then making a case before the SLDC planning committee in person.

I would have done the same if Sainsbury's, or any of the other chains had made the application but the site in question was too small for their requirements so would not have been of interest to them.

I just take issue with the claim that a full shop is so much cheaper anywhere other than Booths as to justify a 20 mile round trip (using a taxi in the case quoted in the article). The cost of that round trip has to be covered somehow either from another household budget or by 'savings' on the shopping.

To you jas93807, I did not say my weekly grocery budget was £100. I gave that figure as an illustration that a Sainsbury's shop for the same items would have to cost £80 for the return trip to be justified.

But if price is everything and you really believe that Sainsbury's (and yes, we do shop there occasionally in their Morecambe branch) is that much cheaper, then why not shop online and have the stuff delivered? That would save you the cost of the trip to Barrow. Or even try Tesco's or ASDA online. Perhaps they deliver to Ulverston as well.

Indeed, you could abandon all the usual household brand names and go to Aldi (and yes, we do a weekly shop there in Kendal too for certain items that suit our needs and taste. Their chocolate bars are especially good as they are manufactured for Continental tastes and are richer in cocoa solids and not padded out with vegetable fat as UK brands are) but your purchases would for the most part, not be like-for-like comparison in price against the named brands in Booths, Sainsbury's or elsewhere.

Sometimes that matters, sometimes it does not.

You really cannot insist that Booths are more expensive simply because you choose to compare a different product from ASDA at a lower price against what Booths offer.

First of all, I am not angry. As far as I can see neither are all but one of the other people who have commented.

I made it clear in my previous posts that you cannot make a like for like price comparison between Booths and any of the Big 4 supermarkets because Booths produce is, arguably superior in quality and taste, a point which you have made yourself. It would be better compared to Waitrose.

However, the fact that it is possibly better value for money does not make it affordable to the majority. I also understand your point about shopping around - my dad used to go to Tesco for his fruit and veg, Morrisons for his wine, Aldi for his sweets and crisps and Booths for his meat. He was retired and on an excellent pension. He had the time to shop around whenever he fancied, a luxury that, again, is not available for the majority.

I also do 90% of my shopping with Tesco and Asda online already, because, as you rightly say, the cost of petrol and wear and tear to my vehicle is more than their delivery charge.

I can only speak from my personal experience and that is that is that for the things I buy most often, Tesco is significantly cheaper than Booths. For my family, that is a fact. I home cook from scratch 6 meals a week, including dessert. I often make my own bread. I rarely give my family ready meals or processed food. I am not spending a fortune on convenience items that I could make more cheaply myself. The family ready meals in Booths are £16.99. I am sure they are delicious, but my goodness.....

Whether or not Booths is too expensive for a weekly shop (regardless of budget) depends entirely upon the individual concerned. In the current economic climate, with home fuel and petrol prices as they are, I would be astonished to find an average working family that does not find Booths too expensive. I will concede, however, that I could be wrong.

[quote][p][bold]Geoff103[/bold] wrote: My, my, why are you all so angry? There's no need to post twice (soapbox1983) or shout. And there's certainly no need to get so worked up about something I didn't write. If there's 'BILE' being expressed, as you put it, then I suggest you look at your own post again and wonder how you could be so intemperate when answering my remarks. I said there are "plenty of good reasons, not the least to see more competition and choice" (or Tesco's or ASDA if they so wish) for Sainsbury's planning application to be approved. Of course, a new development that would revive a now run-down site would be an improvement for the town. But I only have to say this because you have so wilfully misunderstood my post. I spent a good deal of my time more than a year ago arguing against those in Milnthorpe who, for selfish reasons, wished to block the planning application from Booths for a store here. Even to the point of gathering signatures from neighbours in my village and then making a case before the SLDC planning committee in person. I would have done the same if Sainsbury's, or any of the other chains had made the application but the site in question was too small for their requirements so would not have been of interest to them. I just take issue with the claim that a full shop is so much cheaper anywhere other than Booths as to justify a 20 mile round trip (using a taxi in the case quoted in the article). The cost of that round trip has to be covered somehow either from another household budget or by 'savings' on the shopping. To you jas93807, I did not say my weekly grocery budget was £100. I gave that figure as an illustration that a Sainsbury's shop for the same items would have to cost £80 for the return trip to be justified. But if price is everything and you really believe that Sainsbury's (and yes, we do shop there occasionally in their Morecambe branch) is that much cheaper, then why not shop online and have the stuff delivered? That would save you the cost of the trip to Barrow. Or even try Tesco's or ASDA online. Perhaps they deliver to Ulverston as well. Indeed, you could abandon all the usual household brand names and go to Aldi (and yes, we do a weekly shop there in Kendal too for certain items that suit our needs and taste. Their chocolate bars are especially good as they are manufactured for Continental tastes and are richer in cocoa solids and not padded out with vegetable fat as UK brands are) but your purchases would for the most part, not be like-for-like comparison in price against the named brands in Booths, Sainsbury's or elsewhere. Sometimes that matters, sometimes it does not. You really cannot insist that Booths are more expensive simply because you choose to compare a different product from ASDA at a lower price against what Booths offer.[/p][/quote]First of all, I am not angry. As far as I can see neither are all but one of the other people who have commented. I made it clear in my previous posts that you cannot make a like for like price comparison between Booths and any of the Big 4 supermarkets because Booths produce is, arguably superior in quality and taste, a point which you have made yourself. It would be better compared to Waitrose. However, the fact that it is possibly better value for money does not make it affordable to the majority. I also understand your point about shopping around - my dad used to go to Tesco for his fruit and veg, Morrisons for his wine, Aldi for his sweets and crisps and Booths for his meat. He was retired and on an excellent pension. He had the time to shop around whenever he fancied, a luxury that, again, is not available for the majority. I also do 90% of my shopping with Tesco and Asda online already, because, as you rightly say, the cost of petrol and wear and tear to my vehicle is more than their delivery charge. I can only speak from my personal experience and that is that is that for the things I buy most often, Tesco is significantly cheaper than Booths. For my family, that is a fact. I home cook from scratch 6 meals a week, including dessert. I often make my own bread. I rarely give my family ready meals or processed food. I am not spending a fortune on convenience items that I could make more cheaply myself. The family ready meals in Booths are £16.99. I am sure they are delicious, but my goodness..... Whether or not Booths is too expensive for a weekly shop (regardless of budget) depends entirely upon the individual concerned. In the current economic climate, with home fuel and petrol prices as they are, I would be astonished to find an average working family that does not find Booths too expensive. I will concede, however, that I could be wrong. jas93807

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zaney5 says...
11:35am Thu 28 Feb 13

Geoff103 wrote:
Your sneering comment ill becomes you, onelocal.

As for Morrison's, I never 'sneak' anywhere. Quality is a matter of taste and Morrison's don't have it.

I love the way you accuse others of sneering comments, when you, yourself, have come across as exactly that.

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PropMeUpWithTeabags says...
11:39am Thu 28 Feb 13

Can I share your popcorn Kendmoor?

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Geoff103 says...
12:20pm Thu 28 Feb 13

zaney5 wrote:

Kendmoor wrote:
(from morrisons) ;)
I presume Geoffs will be gold plated?

What was that you wrote later about sneering?

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Geoff103 says...
12:30pm Thu 28 Feb 13

jas93807: "I would be astonished to find an average working family that does not find Booths too expensive. "

It's surely not the status of the shopper but his/her choices that determine the cost of shopping?

I'm pleased you're not angry but reading your first post immediately after the one that was, I tried to answer both at the same time.

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jas93807 says...
12:49pm Thu 28 Feb 13

Geoff103 wrote:
jas93807: "I would be astonished to find an average working family that does not find Booths too expensive. "

It's surely not the status of the shopper but his/her choices that determine the cost of shopping?

I'm pleased you're not angry but reading your first post immediately after the one that was, I tried to answer both at the same time.

But the status of the shopper determines their shopping choices. If you have enough money you can afford quality produce. If you are on a low income with a family to feed you have to seek out cheaper alternatives. For some people only the cheapest products are affordable. If someone has a small budget and can only feed their whole family by buying Tesco Value products that cost pennies, then that is what they will choose. Although I am not sure being constrained to buying poor quality food should be classed as a choice at all.

The same people may well choose a different way of feeding their family that is more cost effective in terms of value for money and quality (you get what you pay for after all) if their status were different.

10 years ago I was on benefits for a few months after my marriage ended. I had to feed myself and two children on about £15pw. I could do it, but I dread to think what I was feeding them via all those value products. The only choice I could afford was between feeding us rubbish 7 days a week or feeding us almost decent food 4 or 5 days a week. Everything is only cheap if you can afford it, as soon as you are poor everything is expensive.

I am lucky. I can afford to spend extra money and feed my family quality produce. That is my choice. Other people cannot and my concern is for them. After all, I may find myself in the same position one day.

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Geoff103 says...
1:04pm Thu 28 Feb 13

"But the status of the shopper determines their shopping choices. If you have enough money you can afford quality produce. If you are on a low income with a family to feed you have to seek out cheaper alternatives."

Up to a point. But you know seeing trolleys being wheeled through checkouts that people make bad choices not because they are poor but because they seem to know no other way.

50 Years ago (there I can beat you on that!) when first married, I did the Saturday shop while my wife was at work. It involved a big bag (or two) and trailing around Birmingham city centre from BHS to Littlewoods, to the Co-op, to Woolworths and a butcher, buying the cheese here, bacon there and so on. In those days, the only ready meals available where freeze-dried supposedly Oriental products called 'Vesta'.

45 years ago, I did the same travelling by bus from Staveley to Kendal, focusing mostly on Booths in Highgate (see I go way back with them!) and then to the Market Hall, at a time when my taxed earned income supported us both and two children on much less than a family in similar circumstances gets on benefits today (real inflation-adjusted income, not the raw number).

These poor choices have consequences for us all and not just the impoverishment of the individuals that make. They are behind the increased incidence of childhood obesity and Type 2 diabetes.

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zaney5 says...
1:54pm Thu 28 Feb 13

Anyone fancy some ice-cream to go with that popcorn?

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jas93807 says...
3:05pm Thu 28 Feb 13

Ok chaps, you can put down your Tesco Value, unhealthy, disease causing convenience snacks now ;-). I've had my say and I'm out! :-)

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zaney5 says...
3:34pm Thu 28 Feb 13

Geoff103 wrote:

zaney5 wrote:

Kendmoor wrote:
(from morrisons) ;)
I presume Geoffs will be gold plated?
What was that you wrote later about sneering?

Later? Wow, so you can predict the future now?!

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zaney5 says...
3:36pm Thu 28 Feb 13

Geoff103 wrote:

zaney5 wrote:

Kendmoor wrote:
(from morrisons) ;)
I presume Geoffs will be gold plated?
What was that you wrote later about sneering?

And I wasn't sneering.

I was being facetious.

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Hoad Hill says...
3:50pm Thu 28 Feb 13

To everyone on here except one (I'll leave you to decide who that is) my advice would be that there's no point knocking if there's no one in.

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dancer58 says...
6:42pm Thu 28 Feb 13

competition is always good , morrisons came to windermere , straight away some items were lowered in Booths

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onelocal says...
7:05pm Thu 28 Feb 13

Geoff103 wrote:
What are 'Baked Beans'?

;-)

Low cost source of dietary fibre. Help prevent verbal diahorrea. You should try them.

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ulverston2025 says...
9:16am Fri 1 Mar 13

To the point - hundreds of people have signed this petition wanting Sainsburys to come to Ulverston. They want the brand. There are other supermarkets, they all have their unique selling points, Booths amongst them. However there is a groundswell of opinion here requesting a Sainsburys.

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jazzactivist says...
4:19pm Sun 3 Mar 13

How wrong-headed and out of touch with the modern zeitgeist can you be? Ulverston has loads of small, independent shops to shop in, plus an indoor market, a farmers market, and even two small supermarkets - Co-op and Tesco Express - right in the centre of town. I thought everyone knew by now that it is desirable to buy good quality food from local shops rather than go to supermarkets, especially with the latest horsemeat fiasco.

I haven't set foot in a supermarket for 16 years, and regularly go to Ulverston to shop. I also work full time, so it certainly is possible to do so. It simply isn't true that supermarkets offer more choice and cheaper prices - that is just their advertising hype. My shopping has actually been cheaper and much better qualiy since making the choice not to use them. I also prefer for my hard-earned money to circulate in the local economy rather than end up in distant shareholders' pockets.

I think Suzie Lawson needs to think again about what supermarket shopping really means at all levels of society and, being a student, she has no excuse not to explore the bigger picture to make an informed decision.

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furthersouth says...
5:52pm Sun 3 Mar 13

why oh why oh why oh why do they need to actually build a supermarket anywhere. Does this mean that people actually still physically go to the supermarket? Amazing to think. Me, well I just go on't t'internet, fill a shopping trolley, pay a couple of quid and it gets delivered by a nice bloke to my front door. This way i don't have to waste valuable time at the weekend actually driving somewhere and shopping. hopefully, supermarkets will be a thing of the past once folk wake up and harness the digital age. Spend your time doing something else instead, FFS. They deliver up to 11pm every single day and it's dead cheap. You sometimes get vouchers back which pay for delivery so sometimes it's free. Imagine that! Wake up.

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Ulverstonbabe says...
9:08pm Sun 3 Mar 13

jazzactivist and furthersouth - you both need to wake up, if you shop via the internet you don't even go into town and as for jazzactivist's comments you make me laugh. Zeitgeist .... please don't try and belittle or condescend people with phrases which quite frankly to the majority mean nothing. I'm unsure which town you actually shop in ???? the Co-op is rubbish, the aisles are too narrow, no free parking and the choice is rotten, Tesco Express is far too expensive and is focussed on lunch-time custom, have you actually priced items there, far too high and no choice. The farmers market, well, aside from our friends from Crakeside Meat Company is non-existent. How many market towns have cars parked all the way down the street with the exception of the butchers and the key cutters, oh hang on a minute there's a lovely do-nut stall ( their spelling not mine ) at the end of New Market Street which comes all the way from Blackpool. If you turn the corner after passing all the multi-nationals you will see some lovely shops but nothing to feed a family. If you have stayed out of supermarkets for 16 years and work full-time I can only assume that you must work from home and live close to the town centre....Many people don't have that luxury, and you are presumably in the kind of community that doesn't enjoy "labels" but you have insulted Suzie Lawson by assuming that she is a "student" aged 18 .... she isn't, she's a mature student with a family and needs to work and shop sensibly, get a grip, we're sure who you are as you use the same phrases - don't insult people just because they don't agree with your ideals .... and the argument about money ending up in distant shareholders pockets doesn't wash, how can you argue that we have the Co-op and Tesco Express and appear to accept that it's ok, your argument seems lost to me !!

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soapbox1983 says...
9:08pm Sun 3 Mar 13

jazzactivist wrote:
How wrong-headed and out of touch with the modern zeitgeist can you be? Ulverston has loads of small, independent shops to shop in, plus an indoor market, a farmers market, and even two small supermarkets - Co-op and Tesco Express - right in the centre of town. I thought everyone knew by now that it is desirable to buy good quality food from local shops rather than go to supermarkets, especially with the latest horsemeat fiasco.

I haven't set foot in a supermarket for 16 years, and regularly go to Ulverston to shop. I also work full time, so it certainly is possible to do so. It simply isn't true that supermarkets offer more choice and cheaper prices - that is just their advertising hype. My shopping has actually been cheaper and much better qualiy since making the choice not to use them. I also prefer for my hard-earned money to circulate in the local economy rather than end up in distant shareholders' pockets.

I think Suzie Lawson needs to think again about what supermarket shopping really means at all levels of society and, being a student, she has no excuse not to explore the bigger picture to make an informed decision.

What makes YOU think her decision isn't informed??
What is the meaning of "being a student she has no excise not to explore the bigger picture"?
What has her being a student go to do with anything?
from what i can see someone put their name to a different opinion and its an opinion that over 300 other people on the specific petition also agree with, this kind of personal attacking is the reason why people dont stand up for what they believe in. You really are a nasty indivdual. You personally dont agree with sainsburys so keep it at that there is not need to get personal with people, its disgusting behaviour.

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jimjames says...
9:33pm Sun 3 Mar 13

Very telling that jazzactivist mentions money in shareholders pockets. The anti Sainsburys lot hate the idea of anybody making what they would see as an unreasonable profit. Their arguments re devastating shop closures and a destroyed town centre are window dressing.

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ulverston2025 says...
7:11am Mon 4 Mar 13

Sainsburys propose to build a supermarket (which those signing this petition want) and industrial units. This will create lots of jobs - ask anyone living in Ulverston if you are not an engineer or a career carer there are NO jobs in the town. This is a significant investment for a small South Lakeland Town at a time of recession. We need jobs, and our young people need jobs urgently - I am sure Sainsburys will bring managerial jobs, apprenticeships etc. and part time jobs for mums who are struggling to find something in the town as well as full time jobs in the store and business units.

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jazzactivist says...
1:14pm Mon 4 Mar 13

I did assume that Suzie Lawson is a mature student, ulverstonbabe and soapbox. So I assume that with her life experience plus spending her days researching, learning and analysing that she would be able to think more broadly about demands for a supermarket than just what is easier for her. And she should know what 'zeitgeist' means...

16 years ago I got fed up with shopping in tedious supermarkets that pretend that their produce is better and cheaper than elsewhere, and also aggressively set up shop in areas where there are already local shops selling the same thing. If you sit back and really think about it, supermarket shopping is a soulless experience, and once you have tasted real produce you realise what poor quality you are paying for in a supermarket. Your money leaves the area and goes into the pockets of who knows who, while all local people get in return are a few local jobs that pay peanuts. When a supermarket takes over a town and local businesses close, far from there being more choice there is actually NO choice, and that just isn't right.

Realising this, my partner and I decided that we would never shop in one again, and we haven't. We both work full time, but are on quite a low income (£50 per week shopping budget), but manage to buy high quality food from friendly, local, specialist shops and farmers markets and enjoy the experience. When we made the decision we lived 17 miles form the nearest shop of any kind, but it didn't stop us finding alternatives, and it is surprising how mny there are.

The south Lakes is full of excellent shops selling good quality produce, and you soon get to know your favourites and which are best value for what you want to buy. It is also so much better for children to learn about budgeting, economics and service by going to a local shop or farmers market than pacing the aisles of a supermarket.

All I am saying is let's think about what we really want eg quality food for our families, local jobs, a thriving and varied community etc, and whether we already have it and are just not seeing it, rather than demanding yet another supermarket and its downward impact all of the above.

I did assume that Suzie Lawson is a mature student, ulverstonbabe and soapbox. So I assume that with her life experience plus spending her days researching, learning and analysing that she would be able to think more broadly about demands for a supermarket than just what is easier for her. And she should know what 'zeitgeist' means... 16 years ago I got fed up with shopping in tedious supermarkets that pretend that their produce is better and cheaper than elsewhere, and also aggressively set up shop in areas where there are already local shops selling the same thing. If you sit back and really think about it, supermarket shopping is a soulless experience, and once you have tasted real produce you realise what poor quality you are paying for in a supermarket. Your money leaves the area and goes into the pockets of who knows who, while all local people get in return are a few local jobs that pay peanuts. When a supermarket takes over a town and local businesses close, far from there being more choice there is actually NO choice, and that just isn't right. Realising this, my partner and I decided that we would never shop in one again, and we haven't. We both work full time, but are on quite a low income (£50 per week shopping budget), but manage to buy high quality food from friendly, local, specialist shops and farmers markets and enjoy the experience. When we made the decision we lived 17 miles form the nearest shop of any kind, but it didn't stop us finding alternatives, and it is surprising how mny there are. The south Lakes is full of excellent shops selling good quality produce, and you soon get to know your favourites and which are best value for what you want to buy. It is also so much better for children to learn about budgeting, economics and service by going to a local shop or farmers market than pacing the aisles of a supermarket. All I am saying is let's think about what we really want eg quality food for our families, local jobs, a thriving and varied community etc, and whether we already have it and are just not seeing it, rather than demanding yet another supermarket and its downward impact all of the above. jazzactivist

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jazzactivist says...
1:23pm Mon 4 Mar 13

Oops forgot to mention that for people who really can't manage to get around to local shops there is an excellent internet service that delivers genuine Cumbrian produce of all kinds direct to your door. The prices are comparable with supermarkets, and there are often special offers on the delivery charge or free delivery. It's called Cumbria Direct. I don't use it myself as I prefer local shops, and have no reason to promote it other than one of public service, but I know people who regularly use CD, including people on limited incomes, and speak very highly of it.

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Ulverstonbabe says...
6:44pm Mon 4 Mar 13

Excuse me but ordering goods from Cumbria Direct does not bring footfall into the town, and if you have £50 per week for your food you're very lucky to fulfill your needs within the town centre. Particularly when the basics like milk, eggs, bread and potatoes are so expensive, our local farmers are struggling to get £12 per bag for their spuds because of the bad weather. We are quite fortunate as we shoot most of what we eat so we DEFINITELY know where it comes from but we can't wait for Sainsbury's to arrive, we love the offers, quantity, quality ( most importantly ) and the choice and the one of the biggest boosts is what Sainsbury's bring to the local economy !!

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jazzactivist says...
9:06am Tue 5 Mar 13

ulverstonbabe, I think you are deliberately missing the point because you just want to buy brand name items in a way that is easy for you, regardless of what that does to the local economy or other people's choices. Cumbria Direct buys local produce grown and made here, including in and around Ulverston, and then sells and delivers it to customers. All the well known Cumbrian brand names are included and the quality is high, and it helps make it possible for Cumbrian producers to make a living - what's not to like?

You asked me how I shop in Ulverston, and here is how I do it:

First you have Appleseeds, which is one of the best wholefood shops in the south Lakes, to buy lentils, chickpeas, rice, cereal, dried fruit, nuts etc as is it much cheaper to buy these dried and the variety is good and quality is high. I make my own breakfast muesli using a selection of items from there, and pulses are a great staple foodstuff to use in meals for anyone on a tight budget.

Next, round the corner to the market to buy bulk type veg such as potatoes, cauliflower etc, and the stallholder is happy to tell you where it comes from.

Next into the butchers - which is a very good one that sells all cuts of meat, plus prepared goods that they make themsleves. They can tell you the provenance of their meat if you ask.

Next, into the veg shop that sells the types of fruit and veg that aren't the general bulk items for a meal - the sort that adds the extra taste and oomph to your food.

Then into the Co-op to buy non-perishables. The Co-op is the most ethical of the supermarkets to shop in, as it doesn't have shareholders. All profits are put back into the company and customers can become members and get a 6 monthly Divi - real money vouchers that make a difference to the cost of your shop, not just points. Most of the Co-op's own brand items are Fair Trade and sourced in Britain, and are very affordable.

Oxfam at the top of the street often sells its own Fair Trade coffee and tea. It may seem more expensive, but the tins are much bigger, and it is high quality. But I buy the Co-op own brand fair trade tea bags and coffee, and supplement with Oxfam or Farrers when I can.

A variety of dairy products can also be bought from the Co-op, including organic milk and cheese. I get my milk delivered by a local milkman, and go to Cartmel to buy my cheese and bread from the excellent artisan cheese and bread shop there. Very affordable, as the quality is extremely high so you don't need much of each item.

There is also a bakery in Ulverston, basic and old-fashioned, but decent.

Then, once you've done your main shop you can add a treat or two from the excellent chocolate shop or florist. And you will still have time left over on the reasonably priced parking for a coffee in one of the lovely cafes there.

There could be a really great farmers market in Ulverston. I was involved in the craft side of the one that started up, but it wasn't well supported by local people and one particular councillor, who has interests in the supermarket, was so against it that he made constant trouble about venue, road signage etc. The stalls were the same as the FM in Cartmel, which is one of the best around. If you can't get to a FM due to work commitments all stallholders are usually happy to make up your order and leave it somewhere for you to pick up if you pay in advance.

So, as someone who likes a day out in Ulverston and regularly shops there, I'm puzzled as to what else you want to buy for your weekly shop that you believe can only be bought from Sainsburys?

ulverstonbabe, I think you are deliberately missing the point because you just want to buy brand name items in a way that is easy for you, regardless of what that does to the local economy or other people's choices. Cumbria Direct buys local produce grown and made here, including in and around Ulverston, and then sells and delivers it to customers. All the well known Cumbrian brand names are included and the quality is high, and it helps make it possible for Cumbrian producers to make a living - what's not to like? You asked me how I shop in Ulverston, and here is how I do it: First you have Appleseeds, which is one of the best wholefood shops in the south Lakes, to buy lentils, chickpeas, rice, cereal, dried fruit, nuts etc as is it much cheaper to buy these dried and the variety is good and quality is high. I make my own breakfast muesli using a selection of items from there, and pulses are a great staple foodstuff to use in meals for anyone on a tight budget. Next, round the corner to the market to buy bulk type veg such as potatoes, cauliflower etc, and the stallholder is happy to tell you where it comes from. Next into the butchers - which is a very good one that sells all cuts of meat, plus prepared goods that they make themsleves. They can tell you the provenance of their meat if you ask. Next, into the veg shop that sells the types of fruit and veg that aren't the general bulk items for a meal - the sort that adds the extra taste and oomph to your food. Then into the Co-op to buy non-perishables. The Co-op is the most ethical of the supermarkets to shop in, as it doesn't have shareholders. All profits are put back into the company and customers can become members and get a 6 monthly Divi - real money vouchers that make a difference to the cost of your shop, not just points. Most of the Co-op's own brand items are Fair Trade and sourced in Britain, and are very affordable. Oxfam at the top of the street often sells its own Fair Trade coffee and tea. It may seem more expensive, but the tins are much bigger, and it is high quality. But I buy the Co-op own brand fair trade tea bags and coffee, and supplement with Oxfam or Farrers when I can. A variety of dairy products can also be bought from the Co-op, including organic milk and cheese. I get my milk delivered by a local milkman, and go to Cartmel to buy my cheese and bread from the excellent artisan cheese and bread shop there. Very affordable, as the quality is extremely high so you don't need much of each item. There is also a bakery in Ulverston, basic and old-fashioned, but decent. Then, once you've done your main shop you can add a treat or two from the excellent chocolate shop or florist. And you will still have time left over on the reasonably priced parking for a coffee in one of the lovely cafes there. There could be a really great farmers market in Ulverston. I was involved in the craft side of the one that started up, but it wasn't well supported by local people and one particular councillor, who has interests in the supermarket, was so against it that he made constant trouble about venue, road signage etc. The stalls were the same as the FM in Cartmel, which is one of the best around. If you can't get to a FM due to work commitments all stallholders are usually happy to make up your order and leave it somewhere for you to pick up if you pay in advance. So, as someone who likes a day out in Ulverston and regularly shops there, I'm puzzled as to what else you want to buy for your weekly shop that you believe can only be bought from Sainsburys? jazzactivist

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jimjames says...
10:39am Tue 5 Mar 13

Aaah! Lentils, chickpeas and muesli, organic coffee and artisan bread, the staples of everyday life, how very pleasant. You'll be telling us next that to reduce the dreaded carbon footprint you push your trolley to Cartmel for the essentials of YOUR life!!

Its got to be faced - Ulverston is a very bad town to shop in. I bought veg yesterday from the "local" shop, got em home and binned em as I hadn't noticed on purchase how sub standard they were. Went to Tesco, bought similar, in perfect nick at a (just) lower price. I care not if they were ethically or fairtrade produced, I can't afford to.

Our butcher is good, no question. But also very expensive, like many I just can't afford to use it on a regular basis. Farmers Markets, again good but very very dear. Don't even mention alleged "bakers", Greggs? A 1001 ways with chemicals.

The vast majority of the individual shops in Ulverston just do not sell what ordinary folk want. Unless quirk and chips are on the menu. There is no need whatsoever for 99% of current shops to fear Sainsburys.

Lastly I will not take lectures on what is best for shoppers here from somebody who has the time and can afford to buy his fillet steak here and drive to Cartmel for the artisan bread to dip in the resulting gravy!

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jazzactivist says...
11:25am Tue 5 Mar 13

I enjoy cooking, jimjames, and enjoy the challenge of eating well on a budget too. I also prioritise fair trade and organic food when I can, because if we can care about the needs of other people in the chain of supply of our food, why not? I was just pointing out that it is already very possible to buy decent food and supplies on a low budget right in the centre of Ulverston.

Don't know what you mean about muesli not being something everyone would eat - if you eat breakfast cereal then why not make your own from good quality ingredients and be sure that it contains exactly what you like to eat, instead of a big box of processed grains? Likewise, lentils, chickpeas and other dried pulses are healthy and tasty, and cheap, and eaten all around the world!

I think you are creating an artificial division between 'types' of people where there isn't one. I am also an 'ordinary folk' on a low income, but think its worth my while to Take care over what I buy and eat. I sometimes travel to Ulverston to shop, and I live within walking distance of Cartmel, but even if you don't, going there is a nice morning out in a pleasant village AND the cheese and bread shop is open on a Sunday! A family day out doing the shopping in different places is cheaper than paying for the family to visit an attraction.

I can understand very elderly people still believing that supermarkets are better than local shops, and traditional brands are to be trusted, because they remember a time when small shops sometimes tricked their customers and supermarkets seemed a more democratic way to shop. Also branding such as M&S knickers and Nescafe coffee were top quality - back then! Branding was all new and exciting. But nowadays we have much more regulation, and small shops have changed their approach to attract customers. Since the 1990s there has been a major shift in people's thinking towards local produce and supporting local economies - it's on just about every TV programme, and in every newspaper.

To me, the South Lakes is an absolute paradise for local shopping. We should be grateful for what we already have, and support it. Surely it's better to have a thriving town centre with a variety of shops than a single thriving supermarket?

I enjoy cooking, jimjames, and enjoy the challenge of eating well on a budget too. I also prioritise fair trade and organic food when I can, because if we can care about the needs of other people in the chain of supply of our food, why not? I was just pointing out that it is already very possible to buy decent food and supplies on a low budget right in the centre of Ulverston. Don't know what you mean about muesli not being something everyone would eat - if you eat breakfast cereal then why not make your own from good quality ingredients and be sure that it contains exactly what you like to eat, instead of a big box of processed grains? Likewise, lentils, chickpeas and other dried pulses are healthy and tasty, and cheap, and eaten all around the world! I think you are creating an artificial division between 'types' of people where there isn't one. I am also an 'ordinary folk' on a low income, but think its worth my while to Take care over what I buy and eat. I sometimes travel to Ulverston to shop, and I live within walking distance of Cartmel, but even if you don't, going there is a nice morning out in a pleasant village AND the cheese and bread shop is open on a Sunday! A family day out doing the shopping in different places is cheaper than paying for the family to visit an attraction. I can understand very elderly people still believing that supermarkets are better than local shops, and traditional brands are to be trusted, because they remember a time when small shops sometimes tricked their customers and supermarkets seemed a more democratic way to shop. Also branding such as M&S knickers and Nescafe coffee were top quality - back then! Branding was all new and exciting. But nowadays we have much more regulation, and small shops have changed their approach to attract customers. Since the 1990s there has been a major shift in people's thinking towards local produce and supporting local economies - it's on just about every TV programme, and in every newspaper. To me, the South Lakes is an absolute paradise for local shopping. We should be grateful for what we already have, and support it. Surely it's better to have a thriving town centre with a variety of shops than a single thriving supermarket? jazzactivist

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jimjames says...
12:40pm Tue 5 Mar 13

There is no reason why we cannot have both - a decent supermarket and a thriving centre. I know that people travel to Lancaster Sainsburys from Morecambe/Garstang/C
arnforth etc. It may just be that shoppers in Barrow may come through to Ulverston sainsburys, then decide to stroll into town to look at the individual and much lauded quirkmongers in the centre. I repeat the vast majority of shops have nothing to fear, by their very nature they do not sell what people ordinarily want or need. And yes, I admit I am partial to a spot of muesli!

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jazzactivist says...
1:12pm Tue 5 Mar 13

I think that's a nice idea, and what supermarkets present as their argument, but I don't think it works out that way. People tend to either dash to the supermarket, load up a month's supply of shopping then leave and load the car and are too exhausted to walk round town and buy things elsewhere. Or they nip into the supermarket on a daily basis because it is easier for them and becomes routine, without thinking of other options first. Supermarkets also do their best to keep people in there with a cafe, creche etc.

If Sainsburys could prove that there is a genuine need, and that it would only sell products that aren't already available within a 10 mile radius of Ulverston, and that are complementary to what local shops sell rather than in competition, then it would work as you describe. But, sadly, supermarkets don't operate that way. What invariably seems to happen is wherever a town has a supermarket, or one is placed in-between villages, they use every trick in their very wealthy arsenal to lure shoppers away from local shops and into their's including mass advertising, price checking with local shops, buying up all supplies, poaching staff etc. A recent example is when Booths moved into Milnthorpe it had a full page advertisement in the Gazette and the first item mentioned was that it has a great butchery dept selling local meat - even though there is an excellent, award-winning butchers right in the centre of Milnthorpe. Now that's just plain mean!

I think you will get your Sainsburys in Ulverston, but it will be a shame. Far better to just ask local shops to order in what you want. They'll all do it. And, look carefully at what you buy next time!!! ;-)

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Geoff103 says...
1:23pm Tue 5 Mar 13

"Far better to just ask local shops to order in what you want. "

Hah!

Did that from my supposed 'award-winning' butcher in Milnthorpe. Still waiting 6 years later for a call to say it's arrived.

And competing is somehow 'mean'? What hand-knitted, sandal-wearing planet do you live on?

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jimjames says...
1:24pm Tue 5 Mar 13

Yes but I can't buy groceries from the plethora of quirky shops which abound in Ulverston. Tinners Rabbit won't order a nice reasonably priced steak for me! My point is that the shops in the town will not be in direct competition with Sainsburys because they are not everyday grocery/provision shops. If Tesco goes - good! The Co-op? Really needs to up its game as things stand now. Haven't been in Booths for over a year, can't afford it. Please jazzactivist - be very specific about which of the town centre shops will be in danger. Nobody else seems to know.

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Spotty Fish says...
3:00pm Tue 5 Mar 13

I wish I lived in jazzactivists world. It sounds idyllic. Oh to have so much time to potter about looking in all these shops, and then to wander home to make my muesli. Does the sun always shine as well?

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Geoff103 says...
3:04pm Tue 5 Mar 13

Spotty Fish wrote:
I wish I lived in jazzactivists world. It sounds idyllic. Oh to have so much time to potter about looking in all these shops, and then to wander home to make my muesli. Does the sun always shine as well?

You mean where they all wear hair shirts and sit round the camp fire singing Kumbya?

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Hoad Hill says...
4:41pm Tue 5 Mar 13

jazzactivist says.
If Sainsburys could prove that there is a genuine need,

>>>>>So you think that Sainsbury's, one of our major retailers, is prepared to build this store without knowing that there is a demand. Really?
Perhaps you should start concentrating a bit more on quality and less on quantity...your excessively long posts are boring and suggest that you have too much time on your hands.
Haven't you read the Sainsbury's consultation results...they are on the Planning website. If you can tear yourself away from here long enough to read them you will see that there is massive support.
Do some research before ranting on here.

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onelocal says...
5:59pm Tue 5 Mar 13

Jazzactivist, you are so busy telling us what an idyllic world you live in that you are not thinking straight. Say, for example, everyone living in Ulverston took your advice and bought their meat from your local butcher. Before long, there would be queues out the door and you would no longer be able to buy the cuts you like, because he will have sold out. Then he would have to expand his premises, hire more staff, source all that meat, probably no longer locally, have it delivered, store it and display it. Trucks would be permanently unloading, and in the end he would have to move to larger purpose built premises on the edge of town. He would have to provide parking, borrow money to build the premises, perhaps from shareholders. or banks. To make sufficient profit to pay that back he would start selling other products, maybe open other stores to gain from bulk discounting. So what have you got? a supermarket. That's how Booths, Morrisons, Sainsburys all started out.
Don't knock supermarkets. Its because they exist that you can still shop like you did in the 50s, but not everyone can or wants to.
The supermarkets are an incredibly effective way of purchasing, distributing and selling the millions of tons of food that a population of 60 million plus requires, and at the same time allows a few thousand people to revert to their idyllic lifestyle.

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Ulverstonbabe says...
7:06pm Tue 5 Mar 13

I bought two rib-eye steaks from Irvings in Ulverston at the week-end and the taste was ok but we've had better, it tickled me that that when I was handed the said slices of beef that John Turner said "I'm afraid that's £16.50", and I'm afraid that at those prices he won't be in business for much longer. I only went there because our friends at Crakeside Meat had sold out and gone home - you can't buy a family shop in town with free parking, good choice ( value, mid-range and top of the range items ) at all, I would never shop at that greengrocers in town as it rots too quickly - but I do love your long posts "jazzactivist" even if to me they make no sense at all !!

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Petition backs plans by Sainsbury's to open in Ulverston (From The Westmorland Gazette)

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Petition backs plans by Sainsbury's to open in Ulverston

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